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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:15 am Post subject: Flasher problem on a '65 |
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I am putting my '65 back together and am having a heck of a time with the blinkers. Its a 12 volt conversion. I have it wired per the specs on the '63 wiring diagram. I have a new emergency flasher relay from Wolfsburg West and have tried umpteen flashers from my collection and still my blinkers won't blink. When I turn on the emergency lights all four lights go on including the one on the dash but no flashing. When I use my t-signals, the lights come on, but no flashing. I bought a new three prong flasher from NAPA labelled X P L and still no flashing. Any ideas?
--Dan |
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glutamodo 
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26325
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:05 am Post subject: |
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Well that PXL relay isn't right, it's for US cars not european ones. You need one with a dedicated ground, like one of these, with 49 49a and 31 terminals.
If you use that, to translate the terminal numbers from what you have to the new relay, it's like this:
+ becomes 49
S and K BOTH get run to 49a
31 is the ground.
That should do it. |
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dstefun
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Joined: February 20, 2002
Posts: 3338
Location: Sacratomato
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| glutamodo wrote: |
| Well that PXL relay isn't right, it's for US cars not european ones. |
True to a point, but the US flasher should still work if it's wired correctly. But I do prefer a European style flasher with a ground terminal if I can find one.
On U.S. flashers with P-X-L or P-+-L terminals,
terminal P = K (or KBL) on the VW flasher (to dash light)
terminal X or + = 49 on the VW flasher (power in to flasher)
terminal L = S (or 49A) on th VW flasher (flasher out to turn signal switch) |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| dstefun wrote: |
| glutamodo wrote: |
| Well that PXL relay isn't right, it's for US cars not european ones. |
True to a point, but the US flasher should still work if it's wired correctly. But I do prefer a European style flasher with a ground terminal if I can find one.
On U.S. flashers with P-X-L or P-+-L terminals,
terminal P = K (or KBL) on the VW flasher (to dash light)
terminal X or + = 49 on the VW flasher (power in to flasher)
terminal L = S (or 49A) on th VW flasher (flasher out to turn signal switch) |
Wired it per your specs and I know have working four way flashers and blinkers. Thanks dstefun!
--Dan |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26325
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| The problem I have with US relays is they don't flash to the outside of the car right away. They can take a maddening amount of time before they light up outside. When you are wanting to signal a lane change in traffic and then you have that delay, it's very very annoying. That's why I won't use them. Grounded relays send the power to the lights as soon as you hit the switch. |
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Sniperx
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Joined: February 14, 2010
Posts: 777
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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I'm stuck. I've been through about 10 turnsignal relays with the same results.
Since I've changed the turn signal switch to the WW model I haven't been able to get the system to function correctly. When I hook it all up the way it is supposed to be the flashers and everything works as it should, EXCEPT the dash light. Using the WW relay, it buzzes when it is hooked up. It stops buzzing when the signal is active, but buzzes when its off. When hooked up to another type of relay the dashlight is constant dim, but on. It becomes brighter when blinking. Another type immediately starts blinking when the dashlight is hooked up.
I'm stuck.... |
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warriorbass05
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2009
Posts: 454
Location: Spring Hill, TN
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| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Sniperx wrote: |
I'm stuck. I've been through about 10 turnsignal relays with the same results.
Since I've changed the turn signal switch to the WW model I haven't been able to get the system to function correctly. When I hook it all up the way it is supposed to be the flashers and everything works as it should, EXCEPT the dash light. Using the WW relay, it buzzes when it is hooked up. It stops buzzing when the signal is active, but buzzes when its off. When hooked up to another type of relay the dashlight is constant dim, but on. It becomes brighter when blinking. Another type immediately starts blinking when the dashlight is hooked up.
I'm stuck.... |
I am doing rewiring myself right now and I have the relay with 49 49a and 31 on it...Now I have to go back and make sure it's right.... |
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hiiykiller
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2009
Posts: 17
Location: st pete fl
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:27 am Post subject: |
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I just went through this myself and hereis is how I got it fixed. You need two extra relays to make it work and wire them up as follows
#30 power
#85 ground
#86 front turn signal wire either blk/grn or blk/white input fpr the relay
*87 blue wire to the dash light itself output both of theses wires go to the dash light
Last but not least cut the 15 power going to the dash light
Hope this helps |
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hiiykiller
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2009
Posts: 17
Location: st pete fl
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| sniperx this will solve your problem mine was doing the same thing |
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twinfallsbass
Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2006
Posts: 301
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Sniperx wrote: |
I'm stuck. I've been through about 10 turnsignal relays with the same results.
Since I've changed the turn signal switch to the WW model I haven't been able to get the system to function correctly. When I hook it all up the way it is supposed to be the flashers and everything works as it should, EXCEPT the dash light. Using the WW relay, it buzzes when it is hooked up. It stops buzzing when the signal is active, but buzzes when its off. When hooked up to another type of relay the dashlight is constant dim, but on. It becomes brighter when blinking. Another type immediately starts blinking when the dashlight is hooked up.
I'm stuck.... |
I had the same problem when I ran new wiring and relay in my '65. You need to run constant ( battery ) 12V to that relay, not ignition 12V like stated in the wiring diagram. I could get into why this is, but I am sure some expert could explain it better than me  |
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warriorbass05
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2009
Posts: 454
Location: Spring Hill, TN
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| twinfallsbass wrote: |
| Sniperx wrote: |
I'm stuck. I've been through about 10 turnsignal relays with the same results.
Since I've changed the turn signal switch to the WW model I haven't been able to get the system to function correctly. When I hook it all up the way it is supposed to be the flashers and everything works as it should, EXCEPT the dash light. Using the WW relay, it buzzes when it is hooked up. It stops buzzing when the signal is active, but buzzes when its off. When hooked up to another type of relay the dashlight is constant dim, but on. It becomes brighter when blinking. Another type immediately starts blinking when the dashlight is hooked up.
I'm stuck.... |
I had the same problem when I ran new wiring and relay in my '65. You need to run constant ( battery ) 12V to that relay, not ignition 12V like stated in the wiring diagram. I could get into why this is, but I am sure some expert could explain it better than me |
go ahead and get into it because I am having to make sure that mine is correct!!!  |
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twinfallsbass
Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2006
Posts: 301
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| It actually has to do with the turn signal bulb. The way it was explained to me was that with the bulb off ( no turn signal ) is suppose to see 12V on both sides of the bulb. What the relay does is put one of the sides of the bulb to ground thus completing the circuit and making the bulb flash. The relay keeps raising the ground and completing the ground and that's how it is suppose to work. I will have to look at my bus to make sure of where to hook up the battery 12V to that system. I will repost later today when I get home from work |
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hiiykiller
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2009
Posts: 17
Location: st pete fl
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Both the flasher relay and turn signal have to have 30 power to work together. I sure that is what the diagham shows |
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panel
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Joined: December 02, 2001
Posts: 1091
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
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Sniperx
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2010
Posts: 777
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| twinfallsbass wrote: |
| It actually has to do with the turn signal bulb. The way it was explained to me was that with the bulb off ( no turn signal ) is suppose to see 12V on both sides of the bulb. What the relay does is put one of the sides of the bulb to ground thus completing the circuit and making the bulb flash. The relay keeps raising the ground and completing the ground and that's how it is suppose to work. I will have to look at my bus to make sure of where to hook up the battery 12V to that system. I will repost later today when I get home from work |
The problem with this is...the bulb grounds out on the speedo case. To run 2 positives through it would require 2 terminals.
This is another problem I have. It USED to work. Only after I changed to a WW turn signal switch (not relay) did problems begin. I was originally running a 2 prong flasher. After changing the switch, the indicator glowed. |
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twinfallsbass
Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2006
Posts: 301
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Sniperx wrote: |
| twinfallsbass wrote: |
| It actually has to do with the turn signal bulb. The way it was explained to me was that with the bulb off ( no turn signal ) is suppose to see 12V on both sides of the bulb. What the relay does is put one of the sides of the bulb to ground thus completing the circuit and making the bulb flash. The relay keeps raising the ground and completing the ground and that's how it is suppose to work. I will have to look at my bus to make sure of where to hook up the battery 12V to that system. I will repost later today when I get home from work |
The problem with this is...the bulb grounds out on the speedo case. To run 2 positives through it would require 2 terminals.
This is another problem I have. It USED to work. Only after I changed to a WW turn signal switch (not relay) did problems begin. I was originally running a 2 prong flasher. After changing the switch, the indicator glowed. |
The bulb grounds through the flasher relay, the bulb is isolated from the ground of the speedo. You only need to connect one constant 12V to the bulb terminal. |
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Sniperx
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2010
Posts: 777
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Alright, I'll buy into this. Now, how exactly do I wire this up with the WW relay?
12v from the ignition or 12v from the batt are still the same 12v. |
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twinfallsbass
Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2006
Posts: 301
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually they are not the same. You don't get the ignition voltage until you turn the key, that's why the regulator is buzzing when you hooked it up the way you did. One side of the bulb had power and the other side did not, thus making the relay Buzzzzzzz. This is what I did, keep the green/black/white from the fuse block to the relay as normal, run a separate wire ( one I made myself ) from the terminal at the bulb on the speedo and hook it to constant 12V ( battery ), this should solve your problem. |
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warriorbass05
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2009
Posts: 454
Location: Spring Hill, TN
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| twinfallsbass wrote: |
| Actually they are not the same. You don't get the ignition voltage until you turn the key, that's why the regulator is buzzing when you hooked it up the way you did. One side of the bulb had power and the other side did not, thus making the relay Buzzzzzzz. This is what I did, keep the green/black/white from the fuse block to the relay as normal, run a separate wire ( one I made myself ) from the terminal at the bulb on the speedo and hook it to constant 12V ( battery ), this should solve your problem. |
I think I am missing something here. can we draw a diagram so I can fix mine too? twinfalls, you are the man here.... |
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hiiykiller
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2009
Posts: 17
Location: st pete fl
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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The problem is that vw used 4 pin flasher originally and it had a seperate pin for the light and the ww flasher is three pin My fix will cost you about 20 bucks but it will work. I wasted countless hours trying to figure it out.
Power from battery is always on and power from ignition is only on when the key is on. Both turn signal flasher and emergency fasher should have constant power |
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