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1972 Baywindow Idling and Brake Issue
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Mpec2
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 5:20 pm    Post subject: 1972 Baywindow Idling and Brake Issue Reply with quote

I'm having some trouble with idling on my bus. I purchased it in November with word that it ran somehwat recently, didnt run when i purchased as it had a very gunked up fuel tank. I pulled the motor to clean out the fuel tank over the winter and got it all back in the car now.

I have statically timed the bus for now, will dynamically once i can get it to idle. Compression is good.

The bus can start and run if i feather the throttle, but once i release it the car just sputters out.

It is a stock 1700 engine, with the dual vacuum dizzy and single 32/36 DFEV weber carb. I know this carb isn't great, is what it is for now though.

One of the dizzy vacuum lines is routed to a three way splitter in the brake booster vacuum line. i've traced the brake booster hoses and they look okay, one of them just behind the tins was iffy so i replaced it. Despite that though, the brake pedal is EXTREMELY stiff, as in I can barely press it down.

Any advice on how to address the idling issue? Can the stiff breaks(potentially bad booster?) be related to the rough idling in any way?

I did clean the carbs thoroughly. Running 150/160 idle jets, float level checked; idle mixture screw and idle speed screw at 2 turns.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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dodger tom
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 Baywindow Idling and Brake Issue Reply with quote

not sure about the brakes.

as i'm sure you know the idling can be so many things from basic tune-up stuff (dirty plugs, old ignition wires, pitted points) to dying coil, carb issues, etc, etc.

one of the first things i'd do (besides checking the basics) is a smoke test for vacuum leaks.
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 10:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 Baywindow Idling and Brake Issue Reply with quote

Why is it such a secret where members live. Just put your location in so we can better help you
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:18 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 Baywindow Idling and Brake Issue Reply with quote

The carb indeed is what it is, and likely will never run and idle well if you are in any kind of area with climate. In SoCal with 75F +-2 degrees, maybe

That hard brake pedal is probably a disconnected or leaking vacuum hose, which will also kill your idle
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 3:28 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 Baywindow Idling and Brake Issue Reply with quote

Disconnect the hose going to the retard can (the nipple pointing towards the distributor body), plug it off, and let us know how it idles.
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Mpec2
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 Baywindow Idling and Brake Issue Reply with quote

Never got around to updating that part of my profile, but i see how location can be relevant here.

I'm just outside of Chicago, pretty cold here still low/mid 40's.

I didnt do the smoke test, but i bought some hoses this morning and just replaced all the ones that run to the booster; they were all pretty old lookin anyways.

I removed the hose on the retard can, plugged it off, but no real difference still wont hold the idle.

As a reply to Tom, the coil, points, ignition wires, and plugs have been replaced since i bought the bus. Point gap was measured and re-checked.

Can this be an issue with the choke? It appears that the weber does not have the standard weber choke, but rather some holley replacement? It almost seems like the first start of the day it'll hold idle for just a second or two (vs never otherwise), but any subsequent starts it doesnt do that.

Photos of carb below for reference.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 Baywindow Idling and Brake Issue Reply with quote

Can we see a pic of your booster vacuum source?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:25 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 Baywindow Idling and Brake Issue Reply with quote

Ah just stepped out of the house, I’ll be back in a few hours.

Do you mean essentially a picture of the booster?

If it helps in the mean time; There is a hose coming off the booster that connects to the metal line, that travels along the bus. And then connects to
another hose that essentially just connects to basically a hose adapter with small circle in between(picture of what it looks that I found online below). And then a hose continues to the three-way split inside the engine bay where I one hose connects to the intake and the other to the dizzy vacuum canister.

I’ve also noticed, when reading online, that people have check valves at some point along the series of vacuum hoses. It didn’t look like mine had one at any point.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 Baywindow Idling and Brake Issue Reply with quote

That hose connector is actually a check valve allowing flow in only one direction. You need to remove it , blow through it verifying that it works, and reinstall with the arrow pointing towards the engine.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 Baywindow Idling and Brake Issue Reply with quote

Edit: the one side of the check valve has very old hose. I’d replace that. The new hose you show may or may not be suitable for brake vacuum. Just because it fits doesn’t mean it won’t collapse. I use Gates power brake vacuum hose in 15/32 inside diameter. It’s widely available PN 27231.

Lastly, with all the hose removed I’d clean out the metal tube using shop air first, then fish a wire through, and pull a cloth patch soaked in solvent.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 Baywindow Idling and Brake Issue Reply with quote

I wonder about that new looking hose on that, it looks like 12mm smog hose since I don't think the reinforced stuff is available in braided. It could be collapsing when warm and shutting off the boost vacuum.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 Baywindow Idling and Brake Issue Reply with quote

Just to remphasise the image of the adapter/check valve above is just a similar one I found online since I won’t be home for a while, that is not from my bus.

But I will remove that valve in my bus then and check if it’s functional and installed in the correct direction.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 Baywindow Idling and Brake Issue Reply with quote

The choke heater may be an unusual Holley thing, but if it is working -
there is a cold idle throttle linkage going to a second adjustment screw sitting under the choke heater.

The screw points roughly towards the throttle cable connection.

That screw sits on a stepped cam. When the choke is cold, the stepped cam rotates and presents a large diameter to the screw. That screw then causes the throttle to be lifted off the idle end stop via the wire linkage that comes out from behind the choke heater.

As the choke heats up the cam rotates . Unlike the 34PICT-3 it doesnt lock while your foot is off the gas, so the idle drops all by itself back to using just the warm idle screw after maybe 3 to 5 minutes.

On my progressive, that cam moves fairly fast, but on initial startup I can adjust that screw to get maybe 1500rpm idle for a short time.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 Baywindow Idling and Brake Issue Reply with quote

That splitting of the vacuums between distributor and brake booster isn’t right. The brake booster needs a fat vacuum hose off the manifold.

Don’t say dizzy unless it’s a Gillespie or Dean, Shirley.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: 1972 Baywindow Idling and Brake Issue Reply with quote

The split does get a big one, it’s got the reduced nipple for the smaller hose coming off the vacuum canister.
If you zoom in on the top there near the intake manifolds you’ll maybe be able to see the splitter.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 12:48 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 Baywindow Idling and Brake Issue Reply with quote

Your carb is not designed to work with a vacuum retard dizzy, so just eliminate the "splitter" as you call it and run the brake vacuum hose straight to the fitting on the manifold. No use trying to fix something that needs to be eliminated. If retard function is actually working (note: they don't age well) it will cause your timing to retard an extra 12° at idle, while if it doesn't work (which is very likely) it will cause a sizable vacuum leak. Unless you want to get out the drill motor and start drilling holes in your carb, the carb can not be adapted to work well with a vacuum retard distributor.
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Mpec2
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 1972 Baywindow Idling and Brake Issue Reply with quote

I did try that.

Blocked off the input on the vacuum canister and on the splitter. No improvements in the idle. But i didn't mess around with any timing after closing them off. Would closing this vacuum port off and the splitter require some timing adjustments? For now i just have the timing set using the standard static timing method.
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