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sloans265 Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2004 Posts: 1321 Location: 32207
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Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:38 pm Post subject: Poorly done Type IV to I conversion |
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Last week I was asked to check out the brakes on a "76 Westy that some folks had bought for their kids to travel out west in. When it was brought to me last yr. for an "inspection" it had a 1600cc Squareback motor in it. I spent the afternoon explaining the "ins and outs" of driving a VW and checked everything out. The next day they took off on their adventure and the last I heard was they had made it with no major issues.
So I guess after they got out there the motor blew. I was told they took it to a shop in San Diego and had a motor "built"(?) for it. It appears they replaced the entire motor with an upright setup but still used the type III exhaust So the engine is leaking from the cooler and it needs to be pulled. I also explained the importance of correcting the cooling tin so the engine wouldn't recycle the hot air. The dad understood everything and said fix it.
As I started to tear it down for removal I started discovering little thing here and there. I can't believe this job was done by an actual shop! And after everything I discovered when it was time to finally pull the motor the damn thing is STUCK ON THE OUTPUT SHAFT! So most likely whomever cut the shaft down didn't do it right and the shaft is probably bound up on the gland nut bearing. Heres some of the neat things I found.
Here it is after I finally got pulley off
I guess this is the shops idea of a breather box? Radiator overflow tank
This is what they did to insure the rod doesn't fall out (I guess)
THe pulleys that I had to pry off
One of the WORST things I found. for some reason that spot had been ground down. And when they installed the hanger they torquered the bolt right into the plunger galley! But I'll fix it.
Heres the hanger they used. Not sure what it came of off.
Crappy mounting, no rubber mounts.
Heres the conversion tin I got from Danvans. Plus the mounts he had made to use correct mustache bar with late body.
Of course to get the mustache bar to work I have to pull all the type III exhaust and put on the proper stuff. Oh and I have to replace the bearings in the Alternator. Of course non of this can happen until I get the motor unstuck
For me its no big deal, I get paid for my efforts. But for the owners this hasn't been a very good "first VW" experience. Thats the part I hate! _________________ 1970 Lotus White Panel
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mackmix Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2008 Posts: 537 Location: San Diego California (SO CAL)
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El_Güero Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2006 Posts: 573
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Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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changing alternators bearings on a late bay/type1 combo is easy as cake, just did it last week, on a 77, loosen the strap, the two sideways 10mm bolts and take the whole thing up trough the opening on the engine compartmente ceiling, you can do the radiator seals that way too. |
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EZ Gruv King of Plaid
Joined: December 10, 2002 Posts: 8544 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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El_Güero wrote: |
you can do the radiator seals that way too. |
Um, the what? _________________ Eric
1977 Deluxe Westfalia - 2.0L FI Type IV, Completely Original
Photographer for HotVWs, VolksWorld, AirMighty, VW Camper & Commercial, Hayburner, and more.
My Photography Page. |
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calebmelvin Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2006 Posts: 3140 Location: Seattle, WA
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El_Güero Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2006 Posts: 573
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Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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i forgott, trick with the accel. cable when reasembling is to stick a long piece of pipe trough the shrough without the gide in all the way in till you see it come out above the tranny, slide the cable in and them go back to the engine and pull the pipe out and slide the guide in, one of the long steel fuel recovery lines from the evaporative sistems is perfect for this.. |
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bus kid Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2007 Posts: 250 Location: under something air cooled
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Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: Poorly done Type IV to I conversion |
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sloans265 wrote: |
L
Heres the conversion tin I got from Danvans. Plus the mounts he had made to use correct mustache bar with late body.
Of course to get the mustache bar to work I have to pull all the type III exhaust and put on the proper stuff. Oh and I have to replace the bearings in the Alternator. Of course non of this can happen until I get the motor unstuck
For me its no big deal, I get paid for my efforts. But for the owners this hasn't been a very good "first VW" experience. Thats the part I hate! |
Nice Hazet _________________ 1969 Deluxe you'll hear me!
[img]
________________________________________
Big Blue runs on gas not Friendship,
so pay up or get out! |
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sloans265 Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2004 Posts: 1321 Location: 32207
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:22 am Post subject: |
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mackmix wrote: |
What a mess huh? Do you mind sharing the name of the shop so we can avoid them? |
The owner was gonna bring the receipt for the work by so I could see if they even bothered mentioning if its a 1600cc or 1776cc. Then I can see who did this. _________________ 1970 Lotus White Panel
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DanChisholm Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2005 Posts: 57
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:46 am Post subject: |
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yeah, that does look like a poor conversion to me. i'm a 4th year apprentice mechanic myself, and when in school (one or two years back, i forget) one of the profs said to never condemn someone's work as you do not know the situation when the repair was made. i.e, the classic "i don't want to spend much money on it....it just needs to last me 1 more month....i just need to make it home" and so forth. the problem is if you comply with what the customer wants in that situation, your name is still on the work. i wouldn't like to have my name branded over that conversion, if it was an honest "make it cheap job" then that's what it is. if it's a scam, well....in the end the shop will lose their reputation. much more important then the money they made off the job. honesty does pay off in this business, take care of your customers, and they will take care of your till. |
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bvolks Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2004 Posts: 845 Location: New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:50 am Post subject: |
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I'm curious about that hanger too. I have one that came with my 70 when I bought it. _________________ 1985 Diesel Jetta Coupe (temporarily retired at
756,000 km)
1971 Doublecab project
1995 Golf CL
1974 Beetle
1978 Westfalia |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:37 am Post subject: |
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For the record, that is no type 4 engine, it is a type 3 (squareback/fastback/notchback) version of a type 1 engine.
You are correct though, it was not done well. |
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Blaubus Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2003 Posts: 5153
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: |
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1/4 NPT for the plunger leak? 7/16" pilot needed. some of the mount holes are helicoiled, and might be too big for 1/4 NPT.
you are gonna need an adaptor plate. |
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sloans265 Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2004 Posts: 1321 Location: 32207
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Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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Randy in Maine wrote: |
For the record, that is no type 4 engine, it is a type 3 (squareback/fastback/notchback) version of a type 1 engine.
You are correct though, it was not done well. |
You must have misunderstood the title. The conversion was already done so the type IV is already gone. And being as its a universal case it could be either a type I, II, or III depending upon how its setup. If it was originally a type III it should have the adapter for the dipstick. But it does have the type III exhaust from the previous motor that DID come out of a squareback. _________________ 1970 Lotus White Panel
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calebmelvin Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2006 Posts: 3140 Location: Seattle, WA
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sloans265 Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2004 Posts: 1321 Location: 32207
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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Well I finally found a little time to work on the bus. The owner understands that I have a real job and this has to be done on my "off" time. In an effort to save him a bit of money I dug through all my junk and found some of the pieces he needed. I had an extra mustache bar, some new mounts, and the sheet metal he needed to "correct" things. I didn't have an extra manifold so he opted to use the one he already had. I couldn't believe the lack of original hardware used on this bus!
Notice the nuts used on the head studs. I'm not familiar with these and felt they weren't as good as original so I fixed those (notice correct headstud nut being used for rocker shaft)
What I thought might be bad bearings ended up being a retainer plate that had come undone in the back of the alternator. Took Alt apart and fixed it.
The copper nuts were used for everything on this motor. The 10mm hex bolts were used for the sheet metal. Almost every one was loose, and some had fallen out!
Heres were I'm at with it right now. I had to get an adapter plate for the mustache bar. And even that had to be modified to work with the Auto Linea case. Installed new fuel pump (making sure to ping the housing to keep pin from backing out), got a new pulley and painted the sheet metal semi gloss black cause I couldn't stand to look at that silver anymore. Now I'm waiting for the new exhaust to come in so I can finish it up. I will most likely get it back in the bus before exhaust shows up. That way I'll have a little time to deal with any issues that may arise.
I'm also gonna see if I can get the air cleaner stand out of my '69 and fit it to work in this bus. That way he can have the correct oil bath air cleaner instead of the "pod" thats currently being used. _________________ 1970 Lotus White Panel
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RZAR Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2007 Posts: 725
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Did you ever find out the name of the shop that did this hackery |
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sloans265 Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2004 Posts: 1321 Location: 32207
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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Well motors back in. Still have to fill up with oil and fix a bit of the wiring. Once the breather box and quitepack muffler show up, I can install those and fire it up. The conversion "metal" worked real good. Only had to move the throttle hole over a little bit and then add 2 more holes for the vent tubes. I may go back and tweak some of the sheet metal for a better fit. THen I can install the engine seal.
Now it looks more like it should underneath!
Heres the mounts that Dansvans had made up. They worked great. Dan did a jam up job on these. Once its running I'll drive it up to work and weld them in.
_________________ 1970 Lotus White Panel
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rcnotes Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2005 Posts: 641 Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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The world belongs to the problem solvers.
Good job! |
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Freak182 Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2008 Posts: 244
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:26 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the pics! I just got a 71 Westy with the motor out of it and a several bins of parts. In plain brown boxes were two rubber and metal pieces that looked like motor mounts but since I never have worked on a T2 before, I wasn't sure if they belonged with the Bus or needed to go into the bin with the other non-VW stuff that came with it (like 2 rochester 4bbl carbs, a diesel Suburban muffler, etc). Now I can see they go on the end of the mustache bar!! _________________
johnnypan wrote: |
I also happen to believe people who roll fatties have prettier women,smarter children and are truly the uber mensch of volkswagen society..and their beer is colder and tastes better |
Supporters:
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Decal restoration by bryanbrutherford
www.CooperTires.com
http://www.oeveedub.com/ |
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ned Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2004 Posts: 1574 Location: Arroyo Grande Ca.
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:46 am Post subject: |
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That engine looked like it took a trip to Baja Ca. for repairs. |
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