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damagd
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2015
Posts: 250
Location: Lancaster, PA
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 Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:23 am Post subject: Head Gasket question |
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| So I had a post a few weeks ago about how my alternator belt kept breaking. Well, I figured out that it was because there was an extra spacer put onto the alt pulley. However, I guess due to the constant overheating/built up pressure of the cooling system I now have a leak on the top of the head gasket on the air box side of the engine. I also have a small leak somewhere around the thermostat housing, but I can't tell where it's coming from. I rebuilt this 2.1 engine using all new gaskets and sealers last fall and right after installation, I noticed a little bit of coolant on top of the head that is now leaking. This coolant leak only lasted about a week and I never saw any coolant on top of that head until now. And it's leaking pretty badly and hissing under a pressure test. So, since these are fairly new gaskets can I just tighten the head down? And how do I go about doing this on this side of the engine? Is it easy? Maybe I didn't torque it down enough during rebuild? Should I try to bleed the system? I did do a search and didn't really find the answer I was looking for, plus it won't hurt to get a fresh take on the situation. Thanks in advance!! |
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fraggle00
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Joined: October 19, 2011
Posts: 356
Location: Bristow, VA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Head Gasket question |
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I think you will need to pull that side and reseal it with new goo. Remember to use the dial type torque wrench not the click or the head nuts may not seat all the way. Make sure they're all squeaky clean, too.
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djkeev
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4539
Location: Arizona Highways
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Head Gasket question |
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you are referring to the water jacket seal.
there is no head gasket on a WBX.
only individual cylinder gaskets and o-rings
i am going to have to venture a guess that your head and/or water jacket sealing surface is corroded, galled or otherwise compromised.
if the seal is hissing, then there is air in the system which is not good.
one or more of your cylinder gaskets or o-rings may be leaking combustion gasses into the cooling system.
could be "fixed" by simply resealing and a re-torque of the heads.
or even some subaru coolant conditioner.
maybe not.
good luck, friend 
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damagd
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2015
Posts: 250
Location: Lancaster, PA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:39 am Post subject: Re: Head Gasket question |
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| borninabus wrote: |
you are referring to the water jacket seal.
there is no head gasket on a WBX.
only individual cylinder gaskets and o-rings
i am going to have to venture a guess that your head and/or water jacket sealing surface is corroded, galled or otherwise compromised.
if the seal is hissing, then there is air in the system which is not good.
one or more of your cylinder gaskets or o-rings may be leaking combustion gasses into the cooling system.
could be "fixed" by simply resealing and a re-torque of the heads.
or even some subaru coolant conditioner.
maybe not.
good luck, friend |
Yes. This is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm sorry, I'm using the wrong terminology. I think the passenger side jacket leaked a little bit immediately after engine rebuild and then somehow stopped leaking until pressure in the system blew it open again. Any advice on how to re-torque the bolts or get to them? I'd like to try that first and I don't want to just start tearing into it without some direction. Thanks. |
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MarkWard
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Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17155
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Head Gasket question |
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I believe they are head nuts. In the torque order, remove one nut at a time. Clean all the sealer etc off the cap nut. Apply new sealer and torque to spec. Do one at a time.
Will this fix your problem, no way to know for sure. It is about the only noninvasive thing you can do. When I worked for VW under warranty, we were resealing the nuts as I described above, this was to solve coolant weeping past the cap nuts, not for a head gasket problem.
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Head Gasket question |
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| damagd wrote: |
| borninabus wrote: |
you are referring to the water jacket seal.
there is no head gasket on a WBX.
only individual cylinder gaskets and o-rings
i am going to have to venture a guess that your head and/or water jacket sealing surface is corroded, galled or otherwise compromised.
if the seal is hissing, then there is air in the system which is not good.
one or more of your cylinder gaskets or o-rings may be leaking combustion gasses into the cooling system.
could be "fixed" by simply resealing and a re-torque of the heads.
or even some subaru coolant conditioner.
maybe not.
good luck, friend |
Yes. This is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm sorry, I'm using the wrong terminology. I think the passenger side jacket leaked a little bit immediately after engine rebuild and then somehow stopped leaking until pressure in the system blew it open again. Any advice on how to re-torque the bolts or get to them? I'd like to try that first and I don't want to just start tearing into it without some direction. Thanks. |
The water jacket gaskets don't require exact torque to seal so retorquing the head bolts will only cause leaks at the bolts unless you remove and reseal each one as you go. If your leak is happening because a head nut isn't well sealed then resealing would work there as well.
If your water jacket seals are leaking you can either try a sealant like the Subaru conditioner or remove the head and replace the seal, making sure the sealing surfaces are A-1 while you are at it. |
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Mellow Yellow 74
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Location: Sydney, Australia
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Robw_z
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Joined: April 28, 2007
Posts: 983
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:00 am Post subject: Re: Head Gasket question |
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Waterboxer head studs are very unique. They stretch a long distance from the base to the end. The Bentley manual states, in bold all capital lettering, not to use a click-type torque wrench on the head studs.
I don't know why, but in my mind it's because when tightening, the studs twist a bit because they are so long. With a beam torque wrench you see in real time where you're going with torque and know when to stop. But with a click type, you are waiting for the click to tell you to stop, and it may be delayed or made inaccurate by the twisting of the stud.
I was helping a guy work on a 1.9. He used a click-type wrench and snapped the first stud. We replaced the stud, and torqued all the rest with a beam-type torque wrench. Nothing else snapped. Doesn't prove anything necessarily, but I'm never going to use a click-type wrench on WBX head studs.
-Rob |
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Mellow Yellow 74
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Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:00 am Post subject: Re: Head Gasket question |
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Fair enough, you learn something every day.
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ftp2leta
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damagd
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2015
Posts: 250
Location: Lancaster, PA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Head Gasket question |
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| I have a digital torque wrench adapter that I use. I'm assuming that would be ok? Honestly, I think I'm going to try the Subaru Conditioner or Alumaseal first and see what happens. Unless you guys think they're just going to create a mess or more of a problem? I mean, it's worth a shot. I've heard good things about both. I guess I have to get the system bled first. I have a ton of pressure building up and that's what caused the leak in the first place. |
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Navy_Flyer
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Joined: January 08, 2012
Posts: 474
Location: Charlottesville, VA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Head Gasket question |
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| damagd wrote: |
| I have a digital torque wrench adapter that I use. I'm assuming that would be ok? Honestly, I think I'm going to try the Subaru Conditioner or Alumaseal first and see what happens. Unless you guys think they're just going to create a mess or more of a problem? I mean, it's worth a shot. I've heard good things about both. I guess I have to get the system bled first. I have a ton of pressure building up and that's what caused the leak in the first place. |
You "have a ton of pressure building up"? Have you tested your blue pressure cap? If it does not release pressure you will definitely blow seals and have leaks. I had 2 brand new (Chinese) caps I got at NAPA both fail out of the box. I then bought a German cap from Van-Cafe, and no problem after that.
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damagd
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2015
Posts: 250
Location: Lancaster, PA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Head Gasket question |
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| Navy_Flyer wrote: |
| damagd wrote: |
| I have a digital torque wrench adapter that I use. I'm assuming that would be ok? Honestly, I think I'm going to try the Subaru Conditioner or Alumaseal first and see what happens. Unless you guys think they're just going to create a mess or more of a problem? I mean, it's worth a shot. I've heard good things about both. I guess I have to get the system bled first. I have a ton of pressure building up and that's what caused the leak in the first place. |
You "have a ton of pressure building up"? Have you tested your blue pressure cap? If it does not release pressure you will definitely blow seals and have leaks. I had 2 brand new (Chinese) caps I got at NAPA both fail out of the box. I then bought a German cap from Van-Cafe, and no problem after that. |
No I haven't. Didn't know that it did that. How do I test it? |
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Navy_Flyer
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Joined: January 08, 2012
Posts: 474
Location: Charlottesville, VA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Head Gasket question |
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| damagd wrote: |
| Navy_Flyer wrote: |
| damagd wrote: |
| I have a digital torque wrench adapter that I use. I'm assuming that would be ok? Honestly, I think I'm going to try the Subaru Conditioner or Alumaseal first and see what happens. Unless you guys think they're just going to create a mess or more of a problem? I mean, it's worth a shot. I've heard good things about both. I guess I have to get the system bled first. I have a ton of pressure building up and that's what caused the leak in the first place. |
You "have a ton of pressure building up"? Have you tested your blue pressure cap? If it does not release pressure you will definitely blow seals and have leaks. I had 2 brand new (Chinese) caps I got at NAPA both fail out of the box. I then bought a German cap from Van-Cafe, and no problem after that. |
No I haven't. Didn't know that it did that. How do I test it? |
Well, my un-scientific method is to clean the cap well in soap/water, then (off of the vehicle) connect a length of tubing to the cap and suck on it. If you can get it to open and let air pass, it works. The two that were bad that I had, I could not get any air to pass at all, either they were failed closed, or the pressure required for them to open was way too high. I don't know the specification for the cap off the top of my head, but it should not be so high that you cannot get it to open by sucking on the tube.
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t3 Ed
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Posts: 7
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Head Gasket question |
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| Hey damagd, I had exactly the same symptoms in my syncro and fixed it permanently by retorqueing the head bolts. The previous posts have outlined how to do it but I can add that care must be taken with coolant getting into the lube system. It wants to run down the push rod tubes. Good luck, Ed. |
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damagd
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Joined: March 11, 2015
Posts: 250
Location: Lancaster, PA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Head Gasket question |
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| MY CURRENT SITUATION...... Pulled the airbox off today and the intake so I could get to the top four head nuts and see exactly what was going on. Put distilled water into the res tank and bled system. Head started leaking at top of head at jacket seal just as I expected. Drained that head. Removed 4 nuts. I didn't remember putting any sealant on them when I rebuilt engine and I didn't see any evidence of sealant when I removed them. I squeezed some black sealant along the side of jacket that was leaking and tried to rub it in there. I know it probably didn't do shit, but what the hell. Then I applied sealant to base of nuts and torqued them down to just a touch above spec. I refilled tank with distilled water and absolutely no leaking around jacket. What does this mean? I don't know. I'm going to fire it up tomorrow and see what happens. I also suspect that the blue cap on res tank is not working properly to relieve pressure. I also got some Subaru coolant conditioner because of the recommendations and I think I have a small leak somewhere around thermostat housing and I can't find it. The guy at Subaru dealership was very reluctant to sell it to me calling it a band aid and that he wouldn't put it in his car and that he'd seen it clog up systems. Bought it anyway. It was $2. Should I use it? And do I put it in the rad per instructions on bottle or in the res tank? Thanks for all the advice. Really appreciate it. I'm hostaging for knowledge.... |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Head Gasket question |
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| Pour the conditioner into the pressure (expansion) tank while the engine is running. |
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fraggle00
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Joined: October 19, 2011
Posts: 356
Location: Bristow, VA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Head Gasket question |
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| Mellow Yellow 74 wrote: |
| Fair enough, you learn something every day. |
For what its worth, I put mine together with a click type wrench because I missed that bold type in the manual. I did go over each nut probably 5 times in the correct "order" with the final torque value and it's still running OK after 1500 miles or so with no leaks. We'll just have to see how she holds up.
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damagd
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Joined: March 11, 2015
Posts: 250
Location: Lancaster, PA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: Head Gasket question |
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| UPDATE....All is good. Drove it 2 1/2 hours to the beach and back. No overheating and no leaking. Thanks for all the advice. |
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