| Author |
Message |
Matts Bug Parts
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2001
Posts: 200
|
 Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:33 am Post subject: Advice - Converting FI to carburetion |
 |
|
I have a low mileage (18,000) 1978 FI engine in my vert that I want to gather parts to convert to carburetor.
I also want to keep the NON-California FI muffler-it is new, quiet and exits under the apron the way it should.
I seek your advice re: what is needed and possible - Items I think are needed and my questions: -34 Pict-3 carb
-Intake manifold from a 71-74 dual port with end castings
-Air cleaner from a 73 or 74
-Oil filler neck
-Fuel pump
My key questions:
-Can i go with 1600 non-FI heads but keep the FI heater boxes and muffler so it fits and sounds the way I like it but has a little more power?
-Can i also go with 1600 non-FI pistons and cylinders so it has a little more power?
-Are there other parts I will need - and other info that I did not think to ask about.
Thank you in advance for any help/advice you can give.
Matthew Ross
Matt's Parts |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
LordGarth
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2005
Posts: 264
Location: Monroe, WA
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I have a 1600 FI engine from a '75 that I was planning to rebuild. What I was told and since this is second hand info take it for what it is worth, but the only difference between the FI engine and the carb engine is the hole for the fuel pump, if you convert you have to use an electric fuel pump. To me, this infers that everything else would be interchangeable. Just my opinion (and hope since I plan to do it as well). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ratspud
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2007
Posts: 138
Location: Columbia SC
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| My car is a convert. Everything will stay the same. Just take off the fuel injection, add the intake and carb, and get an electric fuel pump. Just make sure you put the fuel pump in the front of the car. You will probably need to get a regulator as well. They only need about 2.5lbs of fuel pressure. I just went to dual carbs, do you need an intake and a carb and breather? I've got the whole thing., just needs a quick cleaning, but everything is functional and was running 2 months ago. all you will need is the gaskets to put the intake onto the heads. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lv ron
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2008
Posts: 82
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
what about the cams? someone told me the cams are differant. I dont know just a question I have.
_________________
lv ron
'79 s.b. vert
sin city,nv |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17069
Location: 127.0.0.1
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Why not keep it FI?
_________________
West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jzjames
Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2007
Posts: 1921
Location: Windy Point, WA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17290
Location: Left coast, Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: Advice - Converting FI to carburetion |
|
|
| Matt's Bug Parts wrote: |
-Can i also go with 1600 non-FI pistons and cylinders so it has a little more power?
|
Pistons and cylinders on FI engines are the same as from a carb'd engine.
Another vote for keeping the FI. A low mileage car like that has significant collector value. Converting it to a carb means you are excluding buyers from virtually all major cities that have smog testing. It's value will suffer dramatically.
Plus, it won't run as good.
_________________
| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
perrib
Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2004
Posts: 3402
Location: Chandler, Az
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It should stay FI. It won't pass emissions in many states with out the FI.
The conversion decreases the collectibility value and is illegal under federal law. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2061
Location: Plano, TX USA
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| What's the reason you want to convert it? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mustangbug
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2007
Posts: 40
Location: Houston, TX
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:01 pm Post subject: Re: Advice - Converting FI to carburetion |
|
|
| Bruce wrote: |
| Matt's Bug Parts wrote: |
-Can i also go with 1600 non-FI pistons and cylinders so it has a little more power?
|
Pistons and cylinders on FI engines are the same as from a carb'd engine.
Another vote for keeping the FI. A low mileage car like that has significant collector value. Converting it to a carb means you are excluding buyers from virtually all major cities that have smog testing. It's value will suffer dramatically.
Plus, it won't run as good. |
I'm fairly new to VWs, but I've always heard that the FI bugs don't run as good.
I guess like with everything, the reality is probably somewhere in the middle. Maybe they are just more finicky, but once they are set up and tuned right FI runs better?
I dont know. Interesting topic though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mustangbug
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2007
Posts: 40
Location: Houston, TX
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| perrib wrote: |
It should stay FI. It won't pass emissions in many states with out the FI.
The conversion decreases the collectibility value and is illegal under federal law. |
Are there states that actually smog test cars that old? In Texas, any car over 24 years old is exempt. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Crippler
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2005
Posts: 614
Location: Victoria, TX
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:09 pm Post subject: Re: Advice - Converting FI to carburetion |
|
|
| mustangbug wrote: |
| Bruce wrote: |
| Matt's Bug Parts wrote: |
-Can i also go with 1600 non-FI pistons and cylinders so it has a little more power?
|
Pistons and cylinders on FI engines are the same as from a carb'd engine.
Another vote for keeping the FI. A low mileage car like that has significant collector value. Converting it to a carb means you are excluding buyers from virtually all major cities that have smog testing. It's value will suffer dramatically.
Plus, it won't run as good. |
I'm fairly new to VWs, but I've always heard that the FI bugs don't run as good.
I guess like with everything, the reality is probably somewhere in the middle. Maybe they are just more finicky, but once they are set up and tuned right FI runs better?
I dont know. Interesting topic though. |
i agree with you. most people just hate on the FI due to the lack of experience with it. Carbed VWs are more common, thus more info is available, more parts available, cheaper parts etc.
but people with knowledge of FI and the ones that own a sweet tuned FI car just SWEAR by the fuel injection system.
not sure about the type 1 FI stuff, but my old type 3 was FI...it was one thing after another with it. fuel pump, injectors, ECU, etc. ended up getting dual carbs on it. From what i was told, the VW FI stuff was the exact same stuff that was used in Mercedes Benz of the 70s era...
i wouldnt mind getting schooled on FI and having a late model bug with FI... better gas mileage and more power. who wouldnt...
_________________
1973 VW bus |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17069
Location: 127.0.0.1
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:04 am Post subject: Re: Advice - Converting FI to carburetion |
|
|
| mustangbug wrote: |
| Bruce wrote: |
| Matt's Bug Parts wrote: |
-Can i also go with 1600 non-FI pistons and cylinders so it has a little more power?
|
Pistons and cylinders on FI engines are the same as from a carb'd engine.
Another vote for keeping the FI. A low mileage car like that has significant collector value. Converting it to a carb means you are excluding buyers from virtually all major cities that have smog testing. It's value will suffer dramatically.
Plus, it won't run as good. |
I'm fairly new to VWs, but I've always heard that the FI bugs don't run as good.
I guess like with everything, the reality is probably somewhere in the middle. Maybe they are just more finicky, but once they are set up and tuned right FI runs better?
I dont know. Interesting topic though. |
The problem is that you've heard this from people who don't understand how to work on it. The FI in a Type 3 is super reliable and easy to troubleshoot. If FI weren't so reliable then why did VW use it until the end of production? Do yourself a favor and get ready to dig in and learn. You will be glad you did.
_________________
West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:30 am Post subject: Re: Advice - Converting FI to carburetion |
|
|
| mustangbug wrote: |
| Bruce wrote: |
| Matt's Bug Parts wrote: |
-Can i also go with 1600 non-FI pistons and cylinders so it has a little more power?
|
Pistons and cylinders on FI engines are the same as from a carb'd engine.
Another vote for keeping the FI. A low mileage car like that has significant collector value. Converting it to a carb means you are excluding buyers from virtually all major cities that have smog testing. It's value will suffer dramatically.
Plus, it won't run as good. |
I'm fairly new to VWs, but I've always heard that the FI bugs don't run as good.
I guess like with everything, the reality is probably somewhere in the middle. Maybe they are just more finicky, but once they are set up and tuned right FI runs better?
I dont know. Interesting topic though. |
All of my running VW's are FI. And they run better than any carbed one that I have had.
The people that say they don't run good, do not understand FI.
If properly adjusted, they run better that carbed engines.
_________________
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2061
Location: Plano, TX USA
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
The FI engine is so easy to troubleshoot with a Bentley. All you need is an OHM meter and a fuel pressure gauge.
You have to remember that the youngest FI engine is 29 years old. Even my engine with only 27K niles on it from new needed a cleanup and rebuild of the injectors, replacement of the fuel hoses and other small maintenance.
It runs like a champ and the only probmlem I ever had was bad gas milage which was due to a return fuel line that was kincked under the gas tank when I replaced it.
My car starts up every time and runs really well. I really enjoy the FI engine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spencerr
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2005
Posts: 117
Location: Warner Robins, Georgia
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I had a 71 super beetle in which the previous owner took out the mechanical fuel pump and capped the area where it is installed. Then he put in an electric fuel pump in line just outside the gas tank. Now, it ran pretty good. However, one day my son was driving it and the engine caught fire. That brass nozzle that goes into the carb had somehow come loose and popped out. When the engine died, that electric fuel pump was still pumping gas on the engine because the key was still on. He didn't know it was still pumping gas on the engine even though the engine was running. Luckily the car behind him had a fire extinguisher and quickly put out the fire. If I had the mechanical fuel pump on there, I wouldn't have had nearly the problem. The electric fuel pump may be nice, but I don't think it's the safest way to go. Needless to say after that day, I make sure everything is connected well...no electric full pump! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kelley
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2003
Posts: 1432
Location: "Die Sonneküste" Crystal Beach, FL
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| spencerr wrote: |
| I had a 71 super beetle in which the previous owner took out the mechanical fuel pump and capped the area where it is installed. Then he put in an electric fuel pump in line just outside the gas tank. Now, it ran pretty good. However, one day my son was driving it and the engine caught fire. That brass nozzle that goes into the carb had somehow come loose and popped out. When the engine died, that electric fuel pump was still pumping gas on the engine because the key was still on. He didn't know it was still pumping gas on the engine even though the engine was running. Luckily the car behind him had a fire extinguisher and quickly put out the fire. If I had the mechanical fuel pump on there, I wouldn't have had nearly the problem. The electric fuel pump may be nice, but I don't think it's the safest way to go. Needless to say after that day, I make sure everything is connected well...no electric full pump! |
FYI, the fuel injection engine cases did not have a spot for a mechanical fuel pump like the carbed-engine cases did. They had a stock electrical fuel pump. However, that is a valid concern. You could read the "Beetles and Fires??" sticky about securing the fuel inlet nipple on the carburetor to keep that from happening,,, http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=131225
_________________
74 rusto-custom type 1 Sedan - SOLD
ZRX1100c3, Mean Green - SOLD
| Growler wrote: |
| I hate people. Are you people? I hate you. |
Just trying to remember classic Samba quotes from the 'Days of Yore' |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
George Evans
Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2005
Posts: 632
Location: Flowery Branch , Ga
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I agree with most of the other posts, If the car is nice & low mileage i would not remove the injection. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Matt Anderson
Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2006
Posts: 206
Location: Austintown, OH
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I wouldn't do it either! My Dad has a 75 La Grande, we have had some problems, but between the Bentley manual and the Idiot's guide we have troubleshot everything that has gone wrong and it works great. 36 MPG. A very good misunderstood system.
BUT, if you are absolutely hellbent on putting in a carb, lat me know. I'll buy all the fuel injection parts from you.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lv ron
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2008
Posts: 82
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
here is a thought,
why not save your money,for a custom built motor or build one youself how you want it set up. pull the f.i. motor and keep that around. you might decide you like the f.i. better. if you decide to sell the car you would be able to have it as a original low millage or a high out-put motor.
just mtcw
p.s. thats what I plan on doing
_________________
lv ron
'79 s.b. vert
sin city,nv |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
