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Changed Westfalia canvas tent in 5.5 hours (with photos)
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Busdepot
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:46 am    Post subject: Re: my Bus Depot canvas adventure Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
I bought the Bus Depot Tan Poptop Tent Canvas - 85-91 Westfalia 253070704AOE for $399.

About an hour before I started I found this thread and it made me very worried. But the canvas was here and a couple of my friends were due to arrive with-in the hour. What the hell, right?

Tore out the old canvas with out removing the top, it went very quickly. Installed canvas top to top. Used an awl to poke consistent holes and to make sure everything was lined up correctly. Made the screws a joy to install, well until it was all done, the it hurt a bit, because I used no power tools. Installed the top back on the Vanagon and installed the bottom of the canvas to the body. It all went on very easy. Just used a broom handle to keep the top up and canvas slack.

When it was together I put it up slowly and Ta-Da. She fit like a charm. No rips, nice and taunt. Looks great and now I'm a happy camper.

Dwaine in Dayton aka Denton

The references in the beginning of this thread (which are a couple of years old) related to the Just Kampers canvas that we used to sell, not the canvas we sell now. The JK canvas was a good product for the price, but they did have isolated quality control issues with dimensions. This past summer we introduced our own product to replace it. This product was almost two years in design and I rejected a dozen samples until I thought it was just right. The material is so similar to the OEM German one that side by side you can't even tell the difference. However the side windows are slightly larger on our version, by popular demand. Learning from Just Kampers' experience, I hired an independent canvas specialist to measure and serialize each individual canvas, one by one, ensuring that they do not leave our building unless we're 100% certain the fit is right. For just $279, I can definitively state that this is by far the highest quality canvas ever offered in its price range and will give $500 canvases a run for their money. (Not to mention the only canvas anywhere with 100% independent quality control.) And I say this having carried and used almost every one on the market.

For those who prefer to stick with the OE German product, we still have that too. Our $399 OEM canvas the same one GoWesty sells for $499.

You can read my article on choosing the right poptop canvas at http://www.busdepot.com/details/canvas/.
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tarandusVDub
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone modified the '85 and earlier staples version to change it to the strip and screws version? Saw a thread on here awhile ago where someone did that but can't find it.

Wondering if its worth it, and how to go about it if anyone has that experience...seems like the screws would be way easier and faster...
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: '93 Eurovan Westy Canvas Replacement Reply with quote

Have done Vanagon Westy tent replacements that have the staple strips. This Eurovan had caulk between bottom strips and body...don't know if that was a factory job or from prior replacement...feedback please...I do plan to just add some chaulk and put it back down.

The reason for just re-chaulking is that the bottom strips have a slot for the canvas welp with rubber cord strip to hold into place...didn't realize and cut this strip...still useable, but looking for new replacement...not finding @ GoWesty or BusDepot. Anyone know of this...suggestions...feedback?

The top strips are also installed differently. The "channel" was installed facing the top shell...reverse of past experience on Vanagons. The welp at the top was tucked into the channel from the outside, with the strip positioned on the inside of the canvas...the screws barely caught the edge of the welp. Is this normal?

I have search this site, Westfalia.org., googled, etc. - not finding any videos or info on replacing this canvas.

Thank You - Bob
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:35 am    Post subject: Re: '93 Eurovan Westy Canvas Replacement Reply with quote

shenandoah_vw wrote:
................
The top strips are also installed differently. The "channel" was installed facing the top shell...reverse of past experience on Vanagons. The welp at the top was tucked into the channel from the outside, with the strip positioned on the inside of the canvas...the screws barely caught the edge of the welp. Is this normal?

I have search this site, Westfalia.org., googled, etc. - not finding any videos or info on replacing this canvas.

Thank You - Bob



Bob,

The Eurovan might be different, but for the newer Vanagon pop-top canvas that has screws top and bottom, here is how Professional Installer Kris Knight installs the OEM 3 window canvas:

At the top, the 'U' shape of the aluminum strip faces UP. The canvas goes from the INSIDE toward the outside but stays trapped UNDER the aluminum channel but the bead goes just past the screw holes..

The bottom bead with the plastic strip goes completely under the flat side of the aluminum strip. The 'U' shape points UP again but the canvas goes under it completely from the outside to inside of the Van. The plastic bead should show on the inside tight against the aluminum strip. It makes a fairly good water seal.

Attach the canvas front and back at the top first before running the sides. Same for the bottom. Center screw first then stretch enough to reach the corners and secure. Again, do front and back before securing the sides.

If the top bead at the top aluminum strip is pushed to the outside of that strip, the canvas will be very tight and can cause problems opening the top plus puts extra strain on the side window zippers. It may look good, but it might be TOO tight.

Do any of these steps incorrectly and there will be a problem showing up as you reach the end.

I've posted a new Pop-Top install video with Pro upholstery installer Kris Knight doing the install at the camp site with just hand tools, no help with the top from anyone and with the top still on the Van for a total time of 2 hours 25 minutes.. It's a 2 part video. First part is up on Vimeo but I'm waiting for some Staple top information to add to the second part before I post.. Go here for Part #1


Link

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Bills85Westy
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the link to the second part of Curt's tent install video.

https://vimeo.com/110653545

I am getting ready to install my new canvas so watching this - especially Keith who appears to have done this a number of times - is extremely helpful!

bill
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Changed Westfalia canvas tent in 5.5 hours (with photos) Reply with quote

The 6 pop-top hinge bolts on my 1985 have sticky white stuff on the threads. Maybe to keep water out so they won't corrode? Amazing that it's still pliable after 35 years. What is this stuff and can I still buy it?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Changed Westfalia canvas tent in 5.5 hours (with photos) Reply with quote

Okey dokey, since this is the FAQ, let's do it here:

Getting ready to do the job. Old canvas is off. Top isn't yet. Im debating and inclined to try it with the roof on, ala the vimeo. I have some minor body work stuff Im going to tackle while in there so I have a few days still.

I found that a small electric drill worked great with a flexible shaft even in the really tight areas. My cushions were already out so that helped, Im sure vresus those of you with the top cushions still in place.

Question for Ron or anyone else, he mentions a webpage with the instructions... but I bought it a while back and have currently misplaced any email or literature related to this. Can someone give the correct link? I've seen quite a few pages out there discussing doing this job but nothing "official" looking from Bus Depot.

EDIT: is it actually just the Vimeo listed in this thread already?



EDIT 2:
It also seemed like this EXCELLENT response should be in a FAQ:

RBEmerson wrote:
Our Westy now has a new "OEM" (actually supplied by Günzel, a major German VW "stuff" source, although bought domestically) tent.

First and foremost, the pop top stayed on the vehicle. IMHO, taking the top off is far more work than it's worth. Whatever your choice, beware of the springs in the support arms!!!

My general work flow was the same as the Vimeo video (featuring Kris Knight, who has an auto top business - see the video - google Kris Knight Vanagon to find the video) making the rounds. As a side comment, if you haven't done a tent, the video seems to tell you everything you need to know. It doesn't. There are some useful tool tips; for example, but the casual way Mr. Knight snips the darts into corners is misleading. It's fine if you've done so many tents you can do it in your sleep. For the rest of us, "measure twice, cut once".

Notice, too, there's no use of a power screw driver in the video. Attractive as it may seem, most power drivers end up getting in their own way. Stick with a non-powered driver. And, yes, the flex tip will make your day during this project. The screws on the top section use a #2 point while the ones on the bottom use a #1 point (magnetized tips will help with setting the screws). Use the right tips and don't mix the screws together after taking the old tent off. Be sure to mark where extrusion came from (and do it on the hidden side - once done, who wants to see "this end up" markings). Each piece takes a slightly different set. Mixing the pieces around is not a good idea.

Centering the ends of the tent and vehicle are crucial. The technique of matching seams to find the center of a tent end works well. The existing center screws are probably centered but it won't hurt to verify this by measuring the top with a tape and looking for the center that way.

Once the old tent is off, start by putting the front center of the tent, with the welting under the extrusion, in place with a screw. I sat on the cargo carrier while doing this part. Run the center screw in, but don't clamp the material down. Trying to keep the welting place can be frustrating but you only need about 3" of welting tucked in under the extrusion, on the side you're going to work with next. Pull the material on a corner (I picked the passenger side because I'm right handed), get the welting under extrusion at the end of the extrusion, and start a screw into welting. It's possible to get a stretch (more of a "pull it very tight" than actually stretching the material) and start the screw without a second person's help. Honest. (I found that, with few exceptions, most of the work is actually easier to do without outside help - having a gofer getting dropped screws, etc. is a big help, though) The video mentions that the seams do not go on the corners - this correct! Trying to make a seam sit on a corner, in most cases, simply won't work. Either the tent will wrinkle or something bad will happen to the fabric.

Here's a tip not mentioned in the video: Once the center and one corner screw are in place, add at least one more intermediate screw (between the center and corner - run it down but not tight) on the side (passenger or driver) you just worked on. Do the same thing with the other end of the front extrusion. Other than leaving the end screws a bit loose (helps with the side rails later), when both corners are fitted, run the other screws down. Look for bunching or missed bit of welting or welting sticking out. Loosen screws and tighten fabric as needed.

With the front anchored down, go for the back rail. The process works exactly as the front does, only it can get a bit cramped in the back. Still, the work process is exactly the same. I then installed the side rails (again, I hope you marked which side is which). Begin at one end, re-stretching the material as you set a screw into the welting. Repeat this at the other end of the rail. From there, stuff welting under the extrusion, set and run a screw in part way, over and over. Then tighten every screw down. Repeat this for the other side of the Westy and the top of the tent is done. Again, check for bunching and that welting is in the right place.

Expect this part of the job to take two hours or less. Fitting the front and rear rails isn't that hard, except that working in the back of the bunk can be a little challenging because of the lack of room.

Now comes the fun part: the tent bottom. As recommended in the video, lower the top about 6" and prop it up with a board. Do not bet the top will magically stay in place, and be certain the board can't move out of place. Having the top collapse suddenly could really ruin your day. Keep the zippered windows closed.

This is the part of the tent installation the video skipped over. Be sure to have the right extrusion right side (the channel side) up. Put the center of the tent edge under the center hole. The white plastic welting must stick out from the extrusion! Failure to do this means a baggy tent. How much welting should stick out? The inside edge of the welting roll should be firmly against the extrusion edge. At the front center screw, the space between the extrusion and the locking mechanism for the top should just allow the welting to fit in the space. Again, try to get 2-3" of welting in place on either side of the center screw.

There are actually two corners to fit on any one corner of the tent (that is, the extrusion makes two 45° turns, not one 90° turn). The snips in the welting that Mr. Knight does nearr the start of the video should be done. But where they go matters a lot. Stretch the material away from the center screw and run a screw into the first hole (on the side you're working on) next to the center hole - don't run it in fully. Do this on the other side (the corner you'll do after the one you're working on now) - stretch the material and set a screw next to the center screw. Don't run either of these screws down fully.

Stretch the material as much as is practical (hint: no special tools needed - just pull the stuff firmly with one hand). Mark where the first corner in the extrusion (the one closer to the center of the vehicle) lies on the welting, which should be in the correct place (sticking out properly from under the extrusion). You're looking to mark the center of the coming turn in the top. Once marked, back out or remove any screws that keep you from snipping a V (almost a 90° "pie piece") in the welting, with the cuts centered on your mark. Fit the piece away from the center screw and on the other side of the first corner (this bit makes more sense when you look at a corner with the existing tent). Mark the location of the second corner and snip as before. Fit the first end in place (trim the V if needed) and anchor it with a screw. Fit the short piece of welting in place, set it with a screw, and finish up with the remaining section of the tent bottom. Repeat the process on the other side. Put in the remaining screws in the extrusion and the front is done. Resist the temptation to lift the top to see how the front looks. You will most likely bend and tear things.

The tent goes under the rear extrusion the same way as you did in front. As with the top rails, access to the tent bottom is a challenge but it can be done single-handed. Plan your work and take a couple of breaks along the way. With the front and back lower rails in place, the hard work is done! I'd budget about three hours, worst case, for this part of the job.

All that's left is the bottom side rails. Again, keep them channel side up and put the small bend at the back of the Westy. Set the screws at either end, then pull the welting through, run in a screw, and repeat as needed. Look for bunching along the way. Once done, repeat the job on the other side and you're done! Figure about an hour for this part of the job. Aside from the 2-3 screws near the back hinges, the rest are just "position the welting, set a screw, run it in".

Now comes the really neat part: pushing the top up and stretching the tent. First, check that all of the screws are fully tightened. Pulling on loose strips is no fun (possibly lots of repeated work, possibly twisted strips, possibly torn fabric...). Slowly ease the supporting arms into place. If anything looks like it wants to pop or tear - STOP! Re-work the offending bit and try again.

I did almost all of the job without assistance. I'm not a top fitter or anything of the sort. I didn't use any tools not mentioned in the video (screw driver with flexible shaft, awl, diagonal cutters, 10mm socket and wrench for the pop top bolts). Although I took about six hours of work time or seven hours of clock time (I burned about an hour with distractions), it's not unreasonable to think the job could take at least an hour less.

I know a number of posts say the pop top should come off for this job. A) It's a job that will take at least three people (the pop top is heavy). B) The springs for the front support arms are strong and can give a nasty kick if they're not handled well. C) Removing the rear hinges is easy enough, but getting them aligned correctly, with the tent hanging from the top of the pop top, is no fun. In short, this is no time saver or work saver.

Revisiting stretching... this is a point glossed over in the video. At least with the tent I worked on, "stretching" means nothing more than firmly pulling a hunk of the tent into place. Forget using canvas clamps or stretchers. Anyone pulling fabric with Vice Grips is headed for heartache.

EDIT: Re-written for, I hope, greater clarity

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:34 am    Post subject: Re: Changed Westfalia canvas tent in 5.5 hours (with photos) Reply with quote

Installed my new tent with some help from my friends at the end of June. We took the top off to make it easier for accessing the rear screws.

It was a long hot and humid day with plenty of breaks for drinks or a dip in the pool.

The tent I have is a GW Sunbrella. Very thick and stiff material but so much better than my original that was showing its age.
Opening the top during the day and closing it at night has softened the material up over the past month.
I can close the roof now with out any issues of the stiff canvas!


Link

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Changed Westfalia canvas tent in 5.5 hours (with photos) Reply with quote

Nuthin2It wrote:
The 6 pop-top hinge bolts on my 1985 have sticky white stuff on the threads. Maybe to keep water out so they won't corrode? Amazing that it's still pliable after 35 years. What is this stuff and can I still buy it?

I don't know about what they used but butyl rubber is what we use at work when modifying vehicles and putting holes in the roof. It works really well. It comes in tubes or tape and in colors. It feels about like what they used back in the day to install car windows too on Mericun vehicles.

edit: used this under most of the bolts. Kind of wished I had used a little under each screw but doing those was quite difficult.

https://www.amazon.com/TAPEM-Butyl-Tape-Sealant-Pa...amp;sr=8-4


I still need a couple of screws and would like to replace many more. Does anyone know the size of these? I guess I'd like to find stainless.

Edit: Thanks KAMZ!!!

kamzcab86 wrote:
Upper screws: 3.5x16 3.5x18 oval head, countersunk, self-tapping (part #N0140872)

Lower screws: 2.9x13 oval head, countersunk, self-tapping (part #N0140817)


pushkick wrote:
bottom qty 52
top qty 40

thanks for the info

I don't know why I didnt find this early when I searched: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=700599
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Last edited by nemobuscaptain on Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:03 pm; edited 3 times in total
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nemobuscaptain
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: Changed Westfalia canvas tent in 5.5 hours (with photos) Reply with quote

Whehhhhh... working til 4:00am Sat on this after working on it earlier this week. Youtube said it was a two hour job after all. Life intervened a bunch and I was forced to try to finish it Friday with hopes of meeting the Ohio Valley Tribe group at Dixie Bus Festival.

It is no two-hour job for at least for this newbie, even with the late screw in style.

Got the Bus Depot house gray canvas and it fits fabulously. The sewing and craftsmanship was as I hoped. I expected to have to adjust and have problems having read about people struggling to get their canvas right but I had none. Maybe just dumb luck. It even "seemed" short at first and I just about panicked, but it installed just fine.

For some reason some seem concerned about the color of the mesh. It is but mostly opaque. With the flaps up it appears gray. With it down it is I guess slightly white but it darkens at least when the tent is dark in side. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'd buy this tent again with zero hesitation.

The large side windows are EXCELLENT. Much better circulation.

My canvas was original, one window with those cork squares in place. A rodent took it out for good, but I played with the idea of getting to fixed. Im sooo glad I didn't. It appeared still strong, though it had been tastefully reinforced in a few spots such as where the H arms rub a tad. In reality I could easily put my thumb through it with little effort. Even punching through the canvas to seat the screws was many orders harder with the fresh new canvas.

Im a big, tall dude, like 6'1" two fitty on a good day and likely two fitty plus. Working in the back WAS flat-out miserable. I couldn't roll on to my side because my shoulders wouldn't allow it, so I was laying on my belly, touching the bed and the roof at all times. Yes I removed the pads and the rotating part of the bed completely. If you arent defensive tackle sized, you might have it easier.

Im also ridiculously lefthanded so switching hands to drive the screwdriver wa impossible. While smooshed in the foot of that upper bed peering up like a turtle and of course looking OVER my glasses. I have cheaters in the bottom of my glasses, and hitting that part of my glasses was absolutely frigging impossible. The roof just wouldn't allow my head to move that way. Eventually i just bought very strong reading glasses.

I took the roof and wouldn't consider doing it any other way. It's quite easy to do so long as you have four tallish people available.

So, contrary to the "instructions" I ended up removing the front bottom screws altogether and doing the bottom back before the bottom front. This gave me the ability to raise the roof more and allow me to scrunch back into the foot area of the top bed. Once I got those started but not tightened, I moved back up front and did the front bottom screws.

You'd have a tough time making me do this job again, but if I did, I might well remove all of the plywood bed floor. (Of course, I already have the headknocker and cabinet removed in the back for a fullwidth bed. For others that might be not as easy.)

I love the canvas. I camp mostly in humid hot areas and spent my early live camping in canvas too. Ive had a boat with sunbrella and if you got caught in the rain during a storm it was miserably stuffy inside. But I lived in the PNW or some other rainy colder plain I might well make another choice.

Without a doubt, some solution either the right angle screwdriver or flex shaft is imperative, as are one maybe even two awls (one to hold the hole while the other or a small flat blade screwdriver encourages the bead to go one way or another), and a great sharp set of nippers/diagonal cutters are a must.

Glad, glad glad this is over and now off to camp, hopefully.
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