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Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:13 pm    Post subject: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

I have been getting some clutch slippage. The clutch is not that old, maybe 12,000 miles and about one year old.

I noticed the slave cylinder/piston seems to have downward pressure on the clutch release mechanism, but I have no idea if this is normal. Please take a look at the 17 second video.

I thought the slave cylinder had a return spring that would lift the piston off the release arm.


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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

No return spring, the system is designed to keep a light pressure on the release bearing. That you can compress the slave cylinder by hand indicates to me that both the slave on the master are working well.

Let's see what others have to say.
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DanHoug
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

check your arm on the transmission for how easily it moves. you can lift up on it, the clutch slave will push back into the cylinder an amount, and then check for stiffness in that clutch arm. you should be able to easily move it in the freeplay zone before it pushes on the throw out bearing.

if it is extremely stiff, it can be the same a riding your foot on the clutch and cause slipping. cleaning, lubing, and making sure that arm is free and happy is often forgot in a clutch job along with SLIGHTLY lubing the spline shaft with some moly grease wiped on with a toothbrush.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

Thank you, both. I will look into the idea today.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

I could not actually tell if the release arm movement is correct, but I saw there was a few drops of oil on the bottom of the transmission. It was not gear oil.

I removed the engine and transmission as a unit and separating them found two or three tablespoons of motor oil on the bottom of the bellhousing. I am willing to bet the rear main seal is leaking, and my clutch disc has been contaminated by motor oil.


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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

FWIW, my ancient Dodge has a gap on the bottom of the bellhousing about a 1/4" wide and 6" long so that oil and crap can get out of the bellhousing easily. VW's nearly sealed setup is poorly engineered in comparison. Drilling a few 1/4" holes in the bottom so that the oil drains, seem to me to be a requirement if you don't want oil fouling your disc.

You need to figure out where the oil is coming from, this is easier said than done though.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

Easier said than done, indeed. Clutch recess drier than the Joad family’s water cans just east of Needles. No oil contamination noted.

Not sure why I feel I’m getting clutch slippage…


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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

It looks like the oil leak is coming from the crankshaft seal, so I will resurface the flywheel and check and reset crankshaft endplay as needed.

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I have most of what I need. As usual, there is not a good selection of crankshaft shims out there. I could only get two .030” shims. Don’t know yet if they will be of any use. And my spare seal wasn’t… it was a used seal in the new box from my 1992 Dodge Dakota differential yoke. Not well organized, apparently.

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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

1981 Vanagon clutch release bearing differences:

New part: National 614015

Not sure why there is a pronounced difference.


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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

Looks like one of our favorite vendors dicked me on the fly wheel O ring.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

I’m sorry. The O ring fits in the groove of the flywheel where it seats on the crankshaft hub. This seals the crank to the flywheel. The gray ring looks correct. Not sure what you have going on with the Orange seal, but that’s not correct as pictured.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

You need to use a pick to remove the old o-ring from inside the bore of the flywheel. You should also buy yourself a Sabo seal. Not sure what happened to your old one, maybe it didn't get lubed before the flywheel was installed and melted down in the first few seconds of use. You shouldn't need any silicone or other goo on the flywheel bolts to seal them, the o-ring does that job. I do like to use loctite on the threads, but I don't remember that the manual calls for doing such.

Assuming the extended sleeve on the throwout bearing will allow the bearing to move back far enough, it should cause no problems.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

Hilarious! I just used a pic and dug out what might’ve been an O-ring many, many years ago but is now nothing more than some sort of greasy dirt clod worm thing.

I take ownership of this mistake. I was the last one in here.

Oddly enough, the grey O ring seats fine in it’s groove, ha ha.

All the gooey crap you see on the five bolt hole is squeezed out Loctite and the center has what’s left of the felt ring.[/youtube]
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

All you need to use is enough Loctite to wet the threads, if that is Loctite that oozed out you were using 10 times too much.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

No one is born an expert. You won’t make that mistake again. You still need to figure out why the clutch was slipping. The assumption was the disc was possibly oil soaked. That is not the case. Post a picture of the pressure plate and flywheel faces. Disc too.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

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Last edited by Wasted youth on Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:49 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

Check the dimension on the flywheel from the surface where the pressure plate bolts on to the friction surface. The flywheel looks like it has been resurfaced/ground. If the depth dimension is too great the pressure on the disc may be insufficient. May need to find a known good flywhl to measure.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

Yep, that was a concern. I had the flywheel resurfaced last October. You can barely see the new matched surface where the pressure plate bolts to. It is the lighter colored area along the bolt holes. The slippage has occurred within the last 2,000 miles or so.
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AndyBees
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

The machine shop dude should have milled down the shoulders where the pressure plate fits/bolts up. The amount removed should have been the same he took off the surface of the flywheel.

Also, the recent slipping is likely due to the "new" wearing off the disc, pressure plate and the flywheel. And, there could have been slight slipping going on all along.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Opinions needed: Clutch slave cylinder operation Reply with quote

I will see about measurements when I get home, I was not able to measure this at the machine shop.


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