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gonzos_VW
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:55 pm    Post subject: window frame seal rubber Reply with quote

the rubber for the popout window seals have a round side and a flat side. which way does the flat side go? flat towards outside/ rounded side towards inside? i'm talking about the inner seal rubber that goes on the bus body, not the on the window frame. i got that one right.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flat against the pop-out window frame
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDragnDean wrote:
Eric, Paris wrote:
Nice job, could you also tell the outer frame seal side? flat facing in or out?


If I understand the question... flat side out. There is a little lip which goes along the outside edge. The seal needs to seat in from the exterior. Hope that makes sense.


Restoring my pop outs and got confused at this point, too. I THINK the flat side of the new seals should be on the inside of the bus, with the curved side towards the outside of the bus. The curved side is also the side with the extra lip that laps over the edge of the frame. I would assume it is engineered this way to shed water to the outside of the bus, rather than directing it into the channel.

Here's a pic of a segment of my original seal in my frame for reference. With time, the flat side of a new seal bends over and conforms to the opening becoming curved such as this one. Can someone confirm for me that this is correct?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Thanks!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the little lip goes toward the OUTSIDE of the Bus.

Your photo is correct.
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EDragnDean
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct. Nice photo.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, and thanks for assembling this thread. Very useful. SILICONE is the key with the outer seal on the frame and the clamps make it painless. Also, FYI, my Home Depot carries a 4mm .7 philips head screw with a head the same diameter as the original 3.5mm screw. No clearancing needed!
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DerrickfromNC1
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm in the process of installing the outer rubber onmy new popout frames from Wolfgang.....the inner rubber glass to frame was a snap using windex as a lube & a large C-clamp. The question is.....is there a trick to getting the rubber into the channels at the 4 corners? The corners seem to be bent down at an angle making it very difficult if not almost impossible to get the rubber to seat fully at the corners.
Is this the norm?
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jjjjack
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming you're talking about the seal that goes around the outside of the frame, no, using silicone I didn't have any problems at the corners. My frames were originals and the metal forming the channel doesn't bend down or anything. I would angle the outer edge under the lip, then slide my finger along the back and it would pop in with one smooth motion.

HTH
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DerrickfromNC1
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sides snapped in easy....but the corner bends are not like the pix above. They are bent inward leaving very little room for the rubber to squeeze inside. I have to use a screwdriver to push the rubber under the lip....almost to the point of cutting the rubber.
It seems like with all the individuals here on samba using the repo frames I would not be the only one with this problem.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

did you use the seals that came with the frames, or were they ordered separately?
I tried to use the window seal (window glass to frame seal) that I ordered separately and they would not fit well. The ones that came with fit great.

The outer frame seal I had to feed it in gently from one of the screw hole openings and pull it all the way around.
My outer corners do lean out a bit but they are not installed on the bus yet, which (from other posts) seems to form them to fit anyways.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Gordo.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ordered 5 sets of popout frames and all inner, and outer, frame rubber and the body to frame rubber from Wolfgang to do all 6 popouts at the same time. I just noticed the one popout frame that I purchased from MonkeyNuts because they had one in stock has corners that are not pinched inward. I'll try and find out who the manf. of their popouts is and pass it on.

All the rubber is labeled WestCoast Metric.
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luftgekuhlt
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The shape of my pop-outs is worst than the pics shown in this thread. I've sand blasted, grounded and painted and they look so much better but they were so rusty before that there are small sections on the outside of the frame that are simply gone. This does not allow for the rubber seal on the outside to fit as it should even though the pop-outs are solid and totally usable.

Rather than "restoration" I would describe my project as "partial reconstruction". Has anyone reconstructed sections of the frame? For example with Chemical Metal or something else? All constructive (no pun intended) tips, recommendations and ideas would be highly appreciated.
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* 1965 according to chassie number but regged as 1964
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my frames was rusted to the point that the inner and outer faces were separated. I was able to braze the two together and reshape the inner flange (file, dremel) so the seals fit properly. It worked, but I was glad only one frame needed that kind of effort!
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EDragnDean
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

luftgekuhlt wrote:
The shape of my pop-outs is worst than the pics shown in this thread. I've sand blasted, grounded and painted and they look so much better but they were so rusty before that there are small sections on the outside of the frame that are simply gone. This does not allow for the rubber seal on the outside to fit as it should even though the pop-outs are solid and totally usable.

Rather than "restoration" I would describe my project as "partial reconstruction". Has anyone reconstructed sections of the frame? For example with Chemical Metal or something else? All constructive (no pun intended) tips, recommendations and ideas would be highly appreciated.


I would cut or section the outside of a scrap frame if you are determined to save the original.
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luftgekuhlt
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjjjack wrote:
One of my frames was rusted to the point that the inner and outer faces were separated. I was able to braze the two together and reshape the inner flange (file, dremel) so the seals fit properly. It worked, but I was glad only one frame needed that kind of effort!


That sounds like a great project. I would really like to see the details, pics or whatever. I was thinking of using Chemical Metal. Either reconstruct the frame solid and then reshape the outer seal cavity as you did or having a wooden or metal stick with the shape of the outer seal cavity and remove it when the chemical metal solidifies. I would do that in stages and finally file and dremel to give the frame a nice finish.

The shape of the seal cavity is quite simple as shown in this thread.

If someone could post better pics of the cavity shape it would be highly appreciated.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
[/quote]

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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1965* 21W Samba (MCode 430 114) - 51 BD Standard Microbus (Type 22A. M62) - 1967 Westfalia pop-top (SOLD)
* 1965 according to chassie number but regged as 1964


Last edited by luftgekuhlt on Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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luftgekuhlt
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDragnDean wrote:

I would cut or section the outside of a scrap frame if you are determined to save the original.


I've been searching for scrap frames but it is no picnic. Of course it would be a solution since it is often the lower part of the frame that rusts. I could then use the upper parts of the scrap frame. Anyway i would need to blaze it if I understand your suggestion right. I will have your suggestion in mind. Thanks.
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* 1965 according to chassie number but regged as 1964
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jjjjack
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

luftgekuhlt wrote:
jjjjack wrote:
One of my frames was rusted to the point that the inner and outer faces were separated. I was able to braze the two together and reshape the inner flange (file, dremel) so the seals fit properly. It worked, but I was glad only one frame needed that kind of effort!


That sounds like a great project. I would really like to see the details, pics or whatever.


Sure, here are some shots of the frame in process. You can see in the first shot that the inner and outer faces were rusted such that they were separated:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I clamped everything back into shape/alignment:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Then I brazed the parts back together and took off the excess with a file and dremel. I either forgot to take a completed shot, or it came out too blurry (can't recall, now), but you get the idea. In areas where there was no metal I had to braze a bit, grind, then braze a bit more to fill in the hole.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I didn't have any rust through on the exterior faces, but it would have been the same....i.e. fill and finish, etc.

HTH,
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjjjack wrote:

I didn't have any rust through on the exterior faces, but it would have been the same....i.e. fill and finish, etc.
HTH,


I really dont find other words to describe your restoration other than WOW. Because even if I mostly have rust on the sides it is almost the same rusty shape that I have in my frames. Your method has some serious MUSCLE.

I have a strong hunch that this probably is the way to go for my reconstruction.

Could I ask you to describe the material (metal) and tools you used for the resto as well as if it reached very high temperatures because I am not going to disassemble, this is the reason why I thought of chemical metal. I have some serious rust on sections of the outer part of some frames, only lower part, but at the same time the inner sections including the inner rubber seals are in good condition. Thanks in advance.

The temperature issue I could solve with a wet/soaked towel to protect the glass area.
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1965* 21W Samba (MCode 430 114) - 51 BD Standard Microbus (Type 22A. M62) - 1967 Westfalia pop-top (SOLD)
* 1965 according to chassie number but regged as 1964
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DerrickfromNC1
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As new splitty(67 13window) owners, my wife and I have a lot to learn. What we thought was junk apparently still has value. We just installed 6 new popouts and sent the originals to the landfill.....not even sure I should be owning up to this. I used a small skil saw to cut the frames to retrieve the glass.

In retrospect, at least 3 could easily have been blasted and reused. The other 3 were rusted to the point of missing entire sections. Since my wife likes shiny new repo parts over well used originals I will seek the council of this forum before I dispose of any thing else.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used this thread to replace my seven (one spare) pop out window frames. In the two years I’ve owned this bus the current frames are the third set in the bus! Here’s my story that I hope will help someone down the line save a little $$.

The original OG frames were pitted and not very attractive. I had made the decision to have my bus restored (body work, etc) so I ordered six raw metal repro frames from one of the bus parts companies. The body work was completed and within 8 months I started to see rust seeping out between the seam where the upper and lower frame meets. CRAP! Adding insult to injury, when opening a very tight window (tangent: make sure you lubricate your window seals with something – my favorite is baby powder) I snapped off the bracket that is spot welded to the interior of the window frame. Double CRAP! Not wanting to keep my bus in the garage while slowly fixing each window (my bus is kept in a garage all the time but still managed to rust the new window frames) I decided to order seven new repro window frames from the same source. This time when I got the frames in I had the bracket welded to the window frame (a very nice bead around three sides). Not wanting to deal with the painted window frames rusting again I went down the powder coating route and selected a pearl white that I thought was close enough to L87 (my bus color). Triple CRAP! When I got them back the white was too white. I took the frames back to my original body guy and had them over-sprayed with L87. Then I went about, one by one dismantling my windows (the rusted, broken tabbed ones) and replacing them with the third set. I did run into a problem with my interior seals (glass to frame seals). Somehow I ended up with two different “depths” for some of those seals. Meaning, the rubber covered more glass on the edges with the deeper seals. When putting the windows together the deeper seals bunched a little in the corners. The shallower seals, in some cases, compressed under the lip of the frame and forced me to take it back apart. Given the choice I would have rather had all “deeper” seals. Sorry, but I don’t know the manufacturer of either of the seals.

Bottom line, I have (drum roll) ~$900 in frames, painting, seals, and powder coating in my windows Crying or Very sad

Here are my helpful, cost-saving, tips:
1 - If you are going to replace your frames with the available repros, have the interior tab welded to the frame.
2 - Have your frames powder coated and hopefully your color will match better than mine. I saw a note in this thread that powder coating created a problem with the fitment of the frames together. I didn’t have any problem at all especially when using the clamps on all four sides. I did seven windows with no issue.
3 - I opted to use baby powder as my lubricant of choice for inner and outer seals. I didn't want to deal with the mess from a liquid lubricant. A light dusting (I used my finger to coat the seals) was all that was needed. I do this on my outer seals routinely after the windows (and door seals) are installed. I never have a “sticking” problem with my windows any more.

Hope a little of this helps someone. It would have helped me in not having to purchase a second set of window frames. Yes, I know I could have salvaged the first replacement set.

Bud
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