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Pop Out Window Restoration
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luftgekuhlt
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DerrickfromNC1 wrote:
As new splitty(67 13window) owners, my wife and I have a lot to learn. What we thought was junk apparently still has value. We just installed 6 new popouts and sent the originals to the landfill.....not even sure I should be owning up to this. I used a small skil saw to cut the frames to retrieve the glass.


Thanks for telling your story. Yes, thats right, people is saving parts today that many would rate beyond all hope. Not to tell what was sent to the landfill for 5-10 years ago. I don't even want to think about it.

DerrickfromNC1 wrote:
In retrospect, at least 3 could easily have been blasted and reused. The other 3 were rusted to the point of missing entire sections. Since my wife likes shiny new repo parts over well used originals I will seek the council of this forum before I dispose of any thing else.



Excellent idea. You will always find someone willing to take care of those "unsaveable" parts and restore them.
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1965* 21W Samba (MCode 430 114) - 51 BD Standard Microbus (Type 22A. M62) - 1967 Westfalia pop-top (SOLD)
* 1965 according to chassie number but regged as 1964
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luftgekuhlt
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1madmanx wrote:
I used this thread to replace my seven (one spare) pop out window frames. In the two years I’ve owned this bus the current frames are the third set in the bus! Here’s my story that I hope will help someone down the line save a little $$.

The original OG frames were pitted and not very attractive. I had made the decision to have my bus restored (body work, etc) so I ordered six raw metal repro frames from one of the bus parts companies. The body work was completed and within 8 months I started to see rust seeping out between the seam where the upper and lower frame meets. CRAP! Adding insult to injury, when opening a very tight window (tangent: make sure you lubricate your window seals with something – my favorite is baby powder) I snapped off the bracket that is spot welded to the interior of the window frame. Double CRAP! Not wanting to keep my bus in the garage while slowly fixing each window (my bus is kept in a garage all the time but still managed to rust the new window frames) I decided to order seven new repro window frames from the same source. This time when I got the frames in I had the bracket welded to the window frame (a very nice bead around three sides). Not wanting to deal with the painted window frames rusting again I went down the powder coating route and selected a pearl white that I thought was close enough to L87 (my bus color). Triple CRAP! When I got them back the white was too white. I took the frames back to my original body guy and had them over-sprayed with L87. Then I went about, one by one dismantling my windows (the rusted, broken tabbed ones) and replacing them with the third set. I did run into a problem with my interior seals (glass to frame seals). Somehow I ended up with two different “depths” for some of those seals. Meaning, the rubber covered more glass on the edges with the deeper seals. When putting the windows together the deeper seals bunched a little in the corners. The shallower seals, in some cases, compressed under the lip of the frame and forced me to take it back apart. Given the choice I would have rather had all “deeper” seals. Sorry, but I don’t know the manufacturer of either of the seals.

Bottom line, I have (drum roll) ~$900 in frames, painting, seals, and powder coating in my windows Crying or Very sad

Here are my helpful, cost-saving, tips:
1 - If you are going to replace your frames with the available repros, have the interior tab welded to the frame.
2 - Have your frames powder coated and hopefully your color will match better than mine. I saw a note in this thread that powder coating created a problem with the fitment of the frames together. I didn’t have any problem at all especially when using the clamps on all four sides. I did seven windows with no issue.
3 - I opted to use baby powder as my lubricant of choice for inner and outer seals. I didn't want to deal with the mess from a liquid lubricant. A light dusting (I used my finger to coat the seals) was all that was needed. I do this on my outer seals routinely after the windows (and door seals) are installed. I never have a “sticking” problem with my windows any more.

Hope a little of this helps someone. It would have helped me in not having to purchase a second set of window frames. Yes, I know I could have salvaged the first replacement set.

Bud


Thanks for your cost-saving tips.

And you can always pass on those rusty frames to someone else.
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1965* 21W Samba (MCode 430 114) - 51 BD Standard Microbus (Type 22A. M62) - 1967 Westfalia pop-top (SOLD)
* 1965 according to chassie number but regged as 1964
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flemcadiddlehopper
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DerrickfromNC1 wrote:
As new splitty(67 13window) owners, my wife and I have a lot to learn. What we thought was junk apparently still has value. We just installed 6 new popouts and sent the originals to the landfill.....not even sure I should be owning up to this. I used a small skil saw to cut the frames to retrieve the glass.

In retrospect, at least 3 could easily have been blasted and reused. The other 3 were rusted to the point of missing entire sections. Since my wife likes shiny new repo parts over well used originals I will seek the council of this forum before I dispose of any thing else.


Don't feel too bad I did the same thing with mine. The time and effort involved in repairing these was to much for me. The new chrome ones from CIP1 were only $73.00 with inner seals. Chrome goes with everything, for me.

gordo.
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EDragnDean
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good input from Bud. I do recommend following his advice and also would recommend creating an extra frame or two if you restore or purchase a set of frames.

1. I concur with the tab issue, welding seems like a good option on the repops, and quite frankly is a weak point in the OG frames.
2. Powder coating. When I restored a second set, I ground a small amount of the the tabs that slide into the other half of the frame, and did not have the same problem after powder coat. First batch with the thickness of coat on both halves was to tight between the tabs and the frame, of course I may have had a "heavy" powder coat.
3. Baby powder seems to be the "lubricant" of choice. And to Bud's point, the silicone can get to be a little mess and can have a negative effect if you haven't applied paint to the body.
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CSR7644
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:58 am    Post subject: Side window glass size Reply with quote

Can anyone tell me if the glass size is the same for pop out glass and fixed glass applications??

I am replacing camper crank out windows with 4 fixed and one pop out window.

I want to have some glass cut and need to know glass sizes for each.

Karl,
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EDragnDean
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pop out glass is smaller.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found this thread that has the sizing for the stationary windows:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=540074
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tferr
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just read this whole thread one thing I didnt see...
Is the window to frame seal put in with any type of glue or weatherstrip sealant
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not, it is so tight that I do not think that is necessary.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

X2....I had to use silicon brake lubricant just to slide the seal in and a good amount of force to line up the frame with the screw holes.

Gordo.
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macaia8475
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you purchase pop out windows as a kit with hardware included much like safari windows? If so, who sells them and which ones are recommended? Any thoughts?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolfgang was selling complete kits at the last show I think, at least they sell all the parts and had complete assemblies. To my knowledge they are the actual frame makers.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't see them one their website. Maybe I will call them and ask. Thanks!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDragnDean wrote:
Vintage Split wrote:
Nice job. Thanks for sharing. Any issues with the rubber bulging because of the larger screws?


Nope, screw heads don't recess as well, but no issues. I could have gone for the correct screws, they just weren't readily available.


Getting ready to do mine. Gonna go for the correct screws and just tap/clean the original threads.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="darkburst"]
campingbox wrote:
Spray a light metal etch primer wash then paint with REAL paint. not rattle cans. You will be happy as a clam and I gurantee they will last as long as anything powder coated anyhow.


Really? Rattle cans aren't REAL paint? Please tell me that's incorrect.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flemcadiddlehopper wrote:
X2....I had to use silicon brake lubricant just to slide the seal in and a good amount of force to line up the frame with the screw holes.

Gordo.


And clamps!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More tips:
Unless they have changed things, the Wolfsburg West (WW) outer popout window seals are made wrong.
The "T" portion if the WW seal is about 1mm narrower than original VW so it will pull out of the corners when you pop the window back in.

The ones from West Coast Metric (WCM) are better.
The WCM ones are the correct width and will stay in much better.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
More tips:
Unless they have changed things, the Wolfsburg West (WW) outer popout window seals are made wrong.
The "T" portion if the WW seal is about 1mm narrower than original VW so it will pull out of the corners when you pop the window back in.

The ones from West Coast Metric (WCM) are better.
The WCM ones are the correct width and will stay in much better.


Wow! good to hear. I thought I had assembled mine incorrectly because this very reason.

I wonder if WW know about this? well, time to give them a call and find out.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let us know their response please.
Ken
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenshapiro2002 wrote:
Let us know their response please.
Ken


Okay so I gave them a call and apparently they don't know anything about the seal being too narrow.

I only have two popouts on my bus and it's only one window where the seal pops out when I close it. WW did tell me to check and see if my window might be a little tweaked where the hinge is and that might be the reason as to why the seal keeps popping off.

When I get home this afternoon I will check the alignment of the window frame and take a look at the hinge to see if it's tweaked at all, also I will make sure the seal is oriented correctly.
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