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Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame
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LAGrunthaner Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:04 am    Post subject: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

The front door window frame weather strip was not as bad to install yesterday as I thought but the vent seal is another story. Seems I have mixed up my kit with some other vent seals from years ago. I reached out to Bustoration to figure which are Ronnie's the set labeled Wolfsburg West or West Coast Metric, I'll guess Ronnie's are the West Coast Metric. I have never had a problem with Ronnie's seals so I want to be sure I use them.

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corner seems to flip over, I'm searching images and it appears to be normal
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Not sure if the vent seal actually fits around this piece or I am supposed to cut some rubber?
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took a while to figure which way this vent window flap seal goes in and I'm pretty sure this is correct.
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Thank god for this WW exploded view but I have to search for videos.
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My biggest challenge is the vent seal today, is this the best corner to start it?
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I'll assume the felt seals can go in at anytime?
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Lind wrote:
Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

It appears this image from Scandell's 2007 thread that there should be some kind of slice in the vent seal to allow for the metal tab? Heading out to look now as I'm installing the door window frame weatherstrip & vent window flap seal on the other frame this morning.

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from thread:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
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Lind wrote:
Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

LAGrunthaner wrote:

corner seems to flip over, I'm searching images and it appears to be normal
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that amount of "flipping over" is not "normal", and a sign of the seal not relieved of "tension". the seal doesn't look fully/properly seated in the channel either.
you sure took the difficult way to install that seal. no lubrication, and not sliding it through? wow, you must like torture. Shocked
i can see the channel is rust pitted, but that is not an excuse for the seal being all bent over in the corners.

There will be a little "flipping over" but nowhere near what you are showing.
i just put this seal the other day. it's all lovely and floppy, not under 'tension', can slide it forward or backward, loading up or removing tension as necessary. i'll do the crimping of the channel after it's been in the bus a little while and any minor adjustments are made.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

I recently did the internal vent wing seal and the door tops. Like mentioned about that isn't normal if you haven't relieved the tension on seal. You will need to cut a slit in the rubber for your vent wing tab. I used a bicycle lever made by park to help massage the seal into the groove. I'll see if I can find the pictures I took during my installation.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

Everything mentioned above plus Vaseline! Use it liberally. It works great and unlike some other lube options, it won't become lube again when it gets wet while driving in the rain one day.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

LAGrunthaner wrote:

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Like Hazetguy said, that outside rubber scraper should slide right into that channel from the end with plenty of lube and careful pulling.

Carefully check the profile of that rubber scraper, it is designed to only go one way for a proper seal against the body of the bus.

The way you're doing it in the pic would be a nightmare.

Also, if that channel has even a little bit of the old rubber in it it will prevent the new one from being "pulled through".
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

I know why the rubber has bent so badly, I pulled the rubber so it could thin out a bit then pushed it in with my plastic orange tool in the image thinking it would eventually contract. I was clearly wrong. There is nothing in the slot but I couldn't imagine being able to slide it in. I think I'll remove this and try again.

oakman wrote:
LAGrunthaner wrote:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




Like Hazetguy said, that outside rubber scraper should slide right into that channel from the end with plenty of Vaseline and careful pulling.

Carefully check the profile of that rubber scraper, it is designed to only go one way for a proper seal against the body of the bus.

The way you're doing it in the pic would be a nightmare.

Also, if that channel has even a little bit of the old rubber in it it will prevent the new one from being "pulled through".


Looking at the diagram #50 it looks the same on both sides. I'll take a better look and add a photo of mine.

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So I am supposed to cut a slot out for this?

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Lind wrote:
Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

Quote:
So I am supposed to cut a slot out for this?

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Yes. Should have a ďmarkĒ as to where to do it. Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

LAGrunthaner wrote:


So I am supposed to cut a slot out for this?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Yes. It might be hidden a bit

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This is a 63 so slightly different than yours (no metal clip at the top of the sliding divider but the rest should be similar.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8210143#8210143

Scroll down to the DOOR WINDOW FRAME REASSEMBLY section
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

nlorntson, I don't see that hole on mine Crying or Very sad but very helpful image Wink
Any clue last to which side I should start first the upper corner or the lower corner. Personally I think either corner will be a beast as I have been struggling with getting it to seat.

Mine a closeup:
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nlorntson wrote:
LAGrunthaner wrote:


So I am supposed to cut a slot out for this?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Yes. It might be hidden a bit

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is a 63 so slightly different than yours (no metal clip at the top of the sliding divider but the rest should be similar.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8210143#8210143

Scroll down to the DOOR WINDOW FRAME REASSEMBLY section

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Lind wrote:
Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:28 am    Post subject: Re: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

You MUST use all three of these:

Patience

Force

Determination


Without any one of them youíll eventually give up on the job. Iíve done a few buses now and by far the vent window rubber is the absolute worst to deal with, including the removal of the old caked up one! The pop out windows are a very close second. Anyway, good luck on them. Wink
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:37 am    Post subject: Re: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

Linda, get yourself a tool like the white one in the picture. I've found them on Amazon. It makes all the difference!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

"Linda, get yourself a tool like the white one in the picture."
looks like she has something equivalent (orange in her pic). you can also use blunt tipped plastic bicycle tire levers.


for what it's worth:
i have always installed the vertical vent widow seal (#37 on the WW diagram) after installing the larger seal (#36).
it's very easy to slide/push it (#37) into the ends past the larger seal (#36) after the larger seal has been installed.
and that way it (#37) doesn't interfere with proper seating of the larger seal (#36) when trying to install that.

installing the large seal (#36), i start at the bottom, working around to the top, leaving that little section that fits over the upper vent window pivot tab until last and the seal is adjusted for a good fit. then i cut the slot where the tab actually is, and then lip the rubber over the tab.

i'm assembling two window frames at this time too. use talc powder to aid with installation.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

hazetguy, thanks for the tips #36 first and starting at the bottom then the vertical #37. Using talc is different, I may try it. Wish I had "man hands" for this job.


Link


hazetguy wrote:
"Linda, get yourself a tool like the white one in the picture."
looks like she has something equivalent (orange in her pic). you can also use blunt tipped plastic bicycle tire levers.


for what it's worth:
i have always installed the vertical vent widow seal (#37 on the WW diagram) after installing the larger seal (#36).
it's very easy to slide/push it (#37) into the ends past the larger seal (#36) after the larger seal has been installed.
and that way it (#37) doesn't interfere with proper seating of the larger seal (#36) when trying to install that.

installing the large seal (#36), i start at the bottom, working around to the top, leaving that little section that fits over the upper vent window pivot tab until last and the seal is adjusted for a good fit. then i cut the slot where the tab actually is, and then lip the rubber over the tab.

i'm assembling two window frames at this time too. use talc powder to aid with installation.

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Lind wrote:
Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

Hysterical episode.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

apply liberally. you're not going to hurt anything, it makes installation and moving the seal(s) a bit easier, and it cleans up fast.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

when you get to this point and everything is installed and the frame is bolted to the door, take note of this:
the upper seal will want to curve and tuck in against the body. you'll want to run something like the plastic tool you used to install seals, or perhaps a wooden dowel or popsicle stick along / behind the upper seal, to make it "flip" outward. it will really want to tuck in along the front part of the window frame.
once you get the seal facing "outward", and there are no gaps (which is why it is important that the corners don't curl under so dramatically), you will want to leave the door closed for several days (the longer the better!) so the seal will take shape. this will take some time, and you will probably need to correct it for a while, but it does make a long term difference in the way the seal takes shape and seals, so it's worth the effort. again, use talc in the opening and on the seal to help it "form".

these are "after" shots of how the seal should conform to the body, after it has been "untucked" from curling inward.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


looks like there is a gap, but there really isn't.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

I use cornstarch instead of talc. I like the way it slides better than talc. Don't get either of them wet, at all!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:49 am    Post subject: Re: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

Thanks so much hazetguy for this advice, funny thing because I have purchased 2 sets one from Ronnie of Bustoration and the other from Wolfsburg West I emailed WW asking for tips also and they replied with my own thread LOL way too funny. Your images are super helpful and now that I'm back to work I'll have to move quickly as I need them hot in the sun. I'm surprised you didn't chip your paint installing and I have decided not to allow any of my chipping slow me down as it has for years.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


hazetguy wrote:
when you get to this point and everything is installed and the frame is bolted to the door, take note of this:
the upper seal will want to curve and tuck in against the body. you'll want to run something like the plastic tool you used to install seals, or perhaps a wooden dowel or popsicle stick along / behind the upper seal, to make it "flip" outward. it will really want to tuck in along the front part of the window frame.
once you get the seal facing "outward", and there are no gaps (which is why it is important that the corners don't curl under so dramatically), you will want to leave the door closed for several days (the longer the better!) so the seal will take shape. this will take some time, and you will probably need to correct it for a while, but it does make a long term difference in the way the seal takes shape and seals, so it's worth the effort. again, use talc in the opening and on the seal to help it "form".

these are "after" shots of how the seal should conform to the body, after it has been "untucked" from curling inward.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


looks like there is a gap, but there really isn't.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


j.pickens, I will pick up some cornstarch today and update tonight, I like your tip about the slide factor.

j.pickens wrote:
I use cornstarch instead of talc. I like the way it slides better than talc. Don't get either of them wet, at all!

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Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Help getting the bloody vent window seal in my door frame Reply with quote

Hazletguy and others who have soldiered through the vent seal from hell, any other tips it appears when I get what I think installed on one side I go to the other side and I'm not in the track. Any tips on getting both sides together at the same time or am I not thinking this through properly?

j.pickens I tried the cornstarch and it seems better than greasy products.


Hazletguy I pulled out the end of the other seal #37 although not all of it so I could get #36 in.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Looks almost right on this side.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

After I get this side I flip to the other side and it's as though I did nothing. Should I make something to get both sides in simultaneously? Or am I just not approaching this correctly?
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Lind wrote:
Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon.
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