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duginabug
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Washington State
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 Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: Engine original to car? |
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I would like to confirm, as best as I can, that the engine in my 1960 sedan is the original. When I purchased the car I was told that the body matched the chassis (as it does) and the engine and gearbox are original, which, if that is indeed the case, should make it a "numbers matching" vehicle...I believe.
Here in the Technical section, under VIN Numbers, this is what I found.
Year. --- Chassis --- Engine
1959
Aug - 2 574 497 - 3 152 785
Sep - 2 631 447 - 3 218 812
Oct - 2 690 897 - 3 288 594
Nov - 2 745 953 - 3 355 542
Dec - 2 801 613 - 3 424 453
Under the heading "Beetle VIN Numbers" it states that
"Each chassis number is the last vehicle produced in that month."
So if I assume that each engine number listed is the last one produced in that month, then my engine would have been made in Aug. 1959...I believe.
Sorry if the obvious has slipped past me but I'm not totally clear how it all works. 
My Chassis # is 2790954
Engine # is 3132515
Thank you
DIAB
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glutamodo 
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26323
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Looks like it's not a match to me. Engine, late August - Chassis, late November. What about your tranny number, did you look that one up too? |
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duginabug
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| glutamodo wrote: |
| Looks like it's not a match to me. Engine, late August - Chassis, late November. What about your tranny number, did you look that one up too? |
That I have not done yet. Where would that # be on the gearbox?
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ocdbeetle
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Joined: March 18, 2008
Posts: 1176
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| glutamodo wrote: |
| Looks like it's not a match to me. Engine, late August - Chassis, late November. What about your tranny number, did you look that one up too? |
I would think its more possible it could be a match since the engine was built before the chassis....Rather than the chassis sitting around waiting on an engine.
When you send off for the birth certificate and include the engine # perhaps it'll confirm the engine ID for that particular chassis....
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Glenn
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Your engine should have a VJU4BR8 vacuum/mechanical distributor like this one.
Looks like you have a VJ4BR8 which is mechanical only and was only on Type 2s, not Type 1s.
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67 Florida Deluxe
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Joined: June 21, 2005
Posts: 7987
Location: Gainesville and Tampa, Florida
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| ocdbeetle wrote: |
| glutamodo wrote: |
| Looks like it's not a match to me. Engine, late August - Chassis, late November. What about your tranny number, did you look that one up too? |
I would think its more possible it could be a match since the engine was built before the chassis....Rather than the chassis sitting around waiting on an engine.
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Most logical, Danielsan... you are improving  . However, the engine would have only been built within a month prior. For example, my '65 has original engine. Chassis build date Sept 14, 1964 with engine #8909749 also built during Sept 1964. My 1967 with Jan 3, 1967 build date and erriginal H0 570416 engine with build date late Dec. '66. There were LOTS of bugs being mass produced, so nothing "sat around" waiting for anything. Engines, speedos, gas guages and chassis #s were all very close in date of manufacture - within a month of each other.
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67 Florida Deluxe
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Now to answer duginabug, no, your engine is not original - you can tell by looking at it
look at the generator stand. It's one piece. 1960 has bolt-on generator stand
Perhaps, the cast generator stand continued for a short while into '60, but an August '59-built engine wouldnt be original for a Dec '59 built car. Period correct, perhaps.
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duginabug
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenn wrote: |
Your engine should have a VJU4BR8 vacuum/mechanical distributor like this one.
Looks like you have a VJ4BR8 which is mechanical only and was only on Type 2s, not Type 1s. |
Good eye.
I took that picture right after I reinstalled the engine.
I have since replaced the distributor with one like you show.
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glutamodo
The Android
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Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| 67 Florida Deluxe wrote: |
Now to answer duginabug, no, your engine is not original - you can tell by looking at it
look at the generator stand. It's one piece. 1960 has bolt-on generator stand
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Actually...... the 36HP engine with its integral generator stand was used all the way though the 1960 model year. The 40HP engine, at least in the Bug, wasn't introduced until engine number 5000000 in August of 1960. |
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ocdbeetle
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Joined: March 18, 2008
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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More wax for me....... 
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duginabug
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Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ocdbeetle wrote: |
| I would think its more possible it could be a match since the engine was built before the chassis....Rather than the chassis sitting around waiting on an engine..... |
Yes, my thoughts exactly.
| Quote: |
| "When you send off for the birth certificate and include the engine # perhaps it'll confirm the engine ID for that particular chassis.... |
I do have the birth certificate, unfortunatly they could not provide any info about the engine. 
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duginabug
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| glutamodo wrote: |
Actually...... the 36HP engine with its integral generator stand was used all the way though the 1960 model year. The 40HP engine, at least in the Bug, wasn't introduced until engine number 5000000 in August of 1960. |
Man am I glad you said that. I was about to cry. All the research i have done in trying to find out for sure has led me to believe exactly that.
It's just a matter of determining if this engine "could" be the original.
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bill may
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| 67 Florida Deluxe wrote: |
Now to answer duginabug, no, your engine is not original - you can tell by looking at it
look at the generator stand. It's one piece. 1960 has bolt-on generator stand
Perhaps, the cast generator stand continued for a short while into '60, but an August '59-built engine wouldnt be original for a Dec '59 built car. Period correct, perhaps. |
1960 model year was last 36 hp engine and non synchro 1 st gear trans. 1960 was only year to have a red dip stick because of 1960 only frame which has frame horns that tilt 1/8" lower than 1959 or 1961.. if you use a 1959 and older or 1961 and newer dip stick your oil level will be incorrect. where is the 1960 model year posse???? 
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67 Florida Deluxe
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| glutamodo wrote: |
| 67 Florida Deluxe wrote: |
Now to answer duginabug, no, your engine is not original - you can tell by looking at it
look at the generator stand. It's one piece. 1960 has bolt-on generator stand
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Actually...... the 36HP engine with its integral generator stand was used all the way though the 1960 model year. The 40HP engine, at least in the Bug, wasn't introduced until engine number 5000000 in August of 1960. |
I musta been thinking of the '60 bastard
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A few of my toys, past and present
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duginabug
Samba Member
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Posts: 481
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| bill may wrote: |
| 1960 model year was last 36 hp engine and non synchro 1 st gear trans. 1960 was only year to have a red dip stick because of 1960 only frame which has frame horns that tilt 1/8" lower than 1959 or 1961.. if you use a 1959 and older or 1961 and newer dip stick your oil level will be incorrect. |
Alright Mr. May. 
Now were cookin.
My tranny is a non-synchro 1st gear. The guy I bought it from called it a "crashbox".
I didn't know that little tid-bit about the frame horns. Thank you. And the dipstick handle was red before I rebuilt the engine so I repainted it red.
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duginabug
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Well I thought maybe I'd stir a few opinions asking about this and it did. I like this because it's a great way to learn more about these cars.
So reading the info posted by bill may, glutamodo, and ocdbeetle, is it safe to assume this "could" be the original engine?
I realize it's nearly impossible to know 100% for sure but...to those "truly" knowledgeable about these cars, what do you feel the chances are...say on a % basis, that this is the original engine?
Thanks to all for your input so far.
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67 Florida Deluxe
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| duginabug wrote: |
So reading the info posted by bill may, glutamodo, and ocdbeetle, is it safe to assume this "could" be the original engine?
I realize it's nearly impossible to know 100% for sure but...to those "truly" knowledgeable about these cars, what do you feel the chances are...say on a % basis, that this is the original engine?
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I guess that'd be you three; bill may, glutamodo, and ocdbeetle
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OG member of the '67 Posse
A few of my toys, past and present
'56 Oval, '66 KG Conv't, '67 21-Window, '67 Bug, '79 SuperVert, '55 Pre-A Continental |
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glutamodo
The Android
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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The Android's vote: Not Original. For the reason stated previously - VW was a churn-em-out ASAP facility, parts like this didn't sit around waiting to be used for that long. Not unless there was a quality control issue and something had to get fixed.
Also, appears that no one answered you on where to find your tranny ID. I'm not totally sure where it is on split case transaxles or if the position varied at all. But I did a search in the Gallery and found this photo of a 1957 tranny's number:
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ocdbeetle
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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You must yield to the evidence even if contrarian to optimistic belief...
Thats whats in your fortune cookie..... sorry.....
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Russ Wolfe
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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And where are the heater boxes on that engine. If you are going to be worried about being the OG engine, then the engine should be stock and complete.
As Glenn pointed out. It doesn't have the right distributor either.
Sorry, I did read in another post that you changed the distributor.
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