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Tiico 2.0L engine conversion - What do you think?
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Smothers
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:12 pm    Post subject: Tiico 2.0L engine conversion - What do you think? Reply with quote

I am interested in various opinions on the Tiico 2.0L engine conversion for a 89 syncro. Pros and cons? Thanks.
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D Clymer
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Tiico conversion has kind of fallen out of favor as far as Vanagon engine conversions go. It never did become CARB approved, and Tiico had some early problems with accesory brackets, exhaust downpipe breakage problems, and fuel rail concerns. Their kit also uses the SA fuel injection used on the 1.8 Kombis and it is a system with no direct US equivalent. They have continued to refine their conversion somewhat, but at this point you don't hear of many people buying into it.

There are definitely some pros to the inline 4 VW conversion. It has stock levels of ground clearance(important on a syncro), clears the lid, uses many hardware parts from the VW parts bin, and the VW/Audi inline 4 is very durable. However, I think the power output of a Tiico is marginal for a Syncro. I've driven a Tiico powered Syncro Westfalia, and it was not at all impressive in terms of refinement or power output. I would have preferred a wassserboxer in its place. If you're totally sold on the VW inline four route, I've heard good things about the conversion offered by the Autobahn Society www.theautobahnsociety.com If I were to repower a Syncro, though, I personally would rather have a GoWesty 2.4 or a Subaru 2.2/2.5.

David
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westyventures
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D Clymer wrote:
The Tiico conversion has kind of fallen out of favor as far as Vanagon engine conversions go. It never did become CARB approved, and Tiico had some early problems with accesory brackets, exhaust downpipe breakage problems, and fuel rail concerns. Their kit also uses the SA fuel injection used on the 1.8 Kombis and it is a system with no direct US equivalent. They have continued to refine their conversion somewhat, but at this point you don't hear of many people buying into it.

There are definitely some pros to the inline 4 VW conversion. It has stock levels of ground clearance(important on a syncro), clears the lid, uses many hardware parts from the VW parts bin, and the VW/Audi inline 4 is very durable. However, I think the power output of a Tiico is marginal for a Syncro. I've driven a Tiico powered Syncro Westfalia, and it was not at all impressive in terms of refinement or power output. I would have preferred a wassserboxer in its place. If you're totally sold on the VW inline four route, I've heard good things about the conversion offered by the Autobahn Society www.theautobahnsociety.com If I were to repower a Syncro, though, I personally would rather have a GoWesty 2.4 or a Subaru 2.2/2.5.

David


Having done a few Tiicos here at my shop, and dealing with things that weren't right in the kits, missing parts, stuff that should've been included but were left up to me to upgrade-- like the injector rail, missing OXS wiring, muffler brackets, etc...I finally asked Tiico to take me off their recommended installers list. That and the power just isn't very impressive.

The Overland 2.6 five-cylinder is a better match (146 hp), but takes a special craftsman (moi, for instance) to fit it 'right' in a Syncro.

Autobahn Society? Well...if the TDI conversion I now have at my shop is an indication of their abilities, I'd say avoid 'em! The customer gave up on them ever getting it right and towed it to me, 500 miles away, to rework all the major screwups they did. What a sorry mess, barely moved under it's own power. I hope every job they do isn't this bad.

Karl
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Smothers
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good feedback, thanks guys.
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ones I have seen were very nice, ran smoothly and were very duarable but they were all done here and a nice professional installation.

http://www.foreignautosupply.com/
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TSR53
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

syncrowestytd wrote:
The Overland 2.6 five-cylinder is a better match (146 hp), but takes a special craftsman (moi, for instance) to fit it 'right' in a Syncro. Karl


[sorry for the OT...] If you wouldn't mind, please PM me some photos, details, etc (or location of some off line) of this 2.6 liter 5-cyl conversion.

edit... I found it over on your website.
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Captain Pike
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TSR53 wrote:
syncrowestytd wrote:
The Overland 2.6 five-cylinder is a better match (146 hp), but takes a special craftsman (moi, for instance) to fit it 'right' in a Syncro. Karl


[sorry for the OT...] If you wouldn't mind, please PM me some photos, details, etc (or location of some off line) of this 2.6 liter 5-cyl conversion.

edit... I found it over on your website.

Out of buissness.(or just no longer have a phone) Used SA I5 parts
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westyventures
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Bill W"]
TSR53 wrote:

Out of buissness.(or just no longer have a phone) Used SA I5 parts


Who is out of business? Overland is still in business, Westy Ventures (my biz) is still in business. Both have websites and phones.

www.overlandparts.com
www.westyventures.com
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TSR53
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Opps! I didn't write that they are out of business [minor edit needed on your post.]

Since I'm a major 5-cylinder supporter (Audi S6 20v turbo owner) and being the old school Audi quattro club member / Art Director that I am, this 5-cyl kit looks like the cats meow to me...

http://www.overlandparts.com/5%20cylinder%20kit.htm
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.overlandparts.com/
Yea? Try and get a kit w/o the engine and see what they say.
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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TSR53 wrote:
Opps! I didn't write that they are out of business [minor edit needed on your post.]


It wasn't you Thompson, it was Mr. Bill who said "Out of buissness.(or just no longer have a phone) Used SA I5 parts".
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westyventures
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill W wrote:
http://www.overlandparts.com/
Yea? Try and get a kit w/o the engine and see what they say.


Well, Of course not, they didn't research the parts needed and build the kits to sell just the install kit. Try getting a Tiico install kit. Same deal.
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Ryan Alfonso
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The TiiCo kit was a FAR better deal back in '01 when I did it, but then the kit was a bit flaky then too. It's been improved, but the dollar:rand equation hasn't helped it much. Mine is in there, running well, and I won't change it until it completely blows. And when it does, I'll have all the parts needed for a TDI! I'm asked all the time if I would do it again. "It seemed like a good idea at the time" is how I answer. Not to end on a sour note, but in fact, if I had the entire vanagon experience to do over again, uh... Anyway, in for a penny, in for a pound! I still think the kit is an enticing alternative for VW purists.

Not to go afield of the topic here, but I have to ask this question raised by my mother in law last week (threw me for a loop actually). "Is your vanagan worth keeping?" Think about it... We all feel like it's worth having... This question is particularly important when considering an engine conversion.


Last edited by Ryan Alfonso on Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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TSR53
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know, I know. Sorry this topic of the Tiico has all gone all OT - must be me - I'm just lusting over the 5-cyl kit. OMG...
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westyventures
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ryan Alfonso wrote:
And when it does, I'll have all the parts needed for a TDI! Not to go afield of the topic here, but I have to ask this question raised by my mother in law last week (threw me for a loop actually). "Is your vanagan worth keeping?" Think about it... We all feel like it's worth having... This question is particularly when considering an engine conversion.


Well...sort of. I would never do a TDI with an adaptor plate, too much strain on all the extra bolts and not braced nearly as well as the proper diesel bell. Unless you are a light footed driver.

Vanagons are one of the few cars that can be driven and are appreciating in value. I could probably sell my RUSTY Syncro TDI for what i have in it.
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kayakwesty
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got this email from Steve from TheAutoBahnSociety, it's an email from myself to him and a reply.(He knows I have posted it here)


Hey Mark



I was trying to give a reply, but i'm not sure I can get in the right forum. Maybe you can help me post this? We need to ask Karl what he thinks we did wrong. The engine was a complete engine, so we didn't work on that. The adapter plate was from Kennedy and we actually made our own mounts we use for our regular conversions. Everything else was supplied to us from the customer who was working on the advice given by Karl. In fact, the injection pump was sent to Karl and he built and modified the pump for us in the first place. He told us he had installed it on his van to make sure it was correct, and as I understand it the injection pump is still the problem! Also, the customer had taken the van to a couple of local guys that worked on it after he got it back one of whom decided it needed to be completely rebuilt again. Now as I understand it from the customer he had an oil return issue with the turbo in that it doesn't drain properly and puddles up in the turbo. The stock engine returns oil in through the block whereas the owner of that van had sent us some articles he read on the internet that advised putting the return in the oil pan which I assumed was also what Karl recommended as well. We only took this job on to help this guy who had already purchased the TDI engine and researched everything before coming to us. We work on a lot of vanagons and have many happy customers.



Steve


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westyventures
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kayakwesty wrote:
I got this email from Steve from TheAutoBahnSociety, it's an email from myself to him and a reply.(He knows I have posted it here)


Hey Mark



I was trying to give a reply, but i'm not sure I can get in the right forum. Maybe you can help me post this? We need to ask Karl what he thinks we did wrong. The engine was a complete engine, so we didn't work on that. The adapter plate was from Kennedy and we actually made our own mounts we use for our regular conversions. Everything else was supplied to us from the customer who was working on the advice given by Karl. In fact, the injection pump was sent to Karl and he built and modified the pump for us in the first place. He told us he had installed it on his van to make sure it was correct, and as I understand it the injection pump is still the problem! Also, the customer had taken the van to a couple of local guys that worked on it after he got it back one of whom decided it needed to be completely rebuilt again. Now as I understand it from the customer he had an oil return issue with the turbo in that it doesn't drain properly and puddles up in the turbo. The stock engine returns oil in through the block whereas the owner of that van had sent us some articles he read on the internet that advised putting the return in the oil pan which I assumed was also what Karl recommended as well. We only took this job on to help this guy who had already purchased the TDI engine and researched everything before coming to us. We work on a lot of vanagons and have many happy customers.



Steve



Too much to go into detail here, but interested parties can pmail me. I am planning to send Steve a detailed account of what I feel was done wrong. The pump did NOT come from me, it came from an Ohio company and was poorly built. I modified it for better power. I can't blame the final pump problem on him, that was a Bosch shop in Greenville SC. Somehow they installed a 6-cylinder part in a 4-cylinder pump, AND timed the cam and pump way off from where it should be.

But the basics like intake, exhaust, intercooling, and wiring ALL had major flaws. In any case, the builder should take all credit for basic construction, not blame the incorrectness on the customer. After all, shouldn't they know the best way to set it up, if they are advertising these conversions as one of their specialties?
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kayakwesty
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
After all, shouldn't they know the best way to set it up, if they are advertising these conversions as one of their specialties?


No they actually install the Overland Kit, (the few that are left ) here is the same pic from the Autobahn site, which is the same pic from Overland that use to be up, you can see the same pic by using the wayback machine for old websites

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Steve I know has set-up a killer TDI for a local customer, and its a straight up TDI even with the donor console now the console for the Vanagon and it uses the hot wire controls for the gas petal etc

[img]But the basics like intake, exhaust, intercooling, and wiring ALL had major flaws. In any case, the builder should take all credit for basic construction, not blame the incorrectness on the customer. After all, shouldn't they know the best way to set it up, if they are advertising these conversions as one of their specialties?[/img]

All I know that everyone has seen my (his work) ABA setup is amazed at the quality work of the install, the wiring is bomber, the brackets are a work of art, even down to the motor mount. The exhaust system he now uses even uses the flex connector from MKIV Jetta...is a great piece of engineering.It looks factory thru and thru and not piece-mealed at all.

His customer service, is a benchmark for others, I was there last Friday, and he was heading to Florida to pick up two vans for customers to perform work on at his shop in Georgia...not many will do that in this day and age.

I wouldn't be posting if I didn't think Steve did good work...
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1984 Westy 2.0 Jetta ABA Motor/1.8 head converted to auto tranny, with 180,000 on body, 55K on engine and transmission

B.5.5 Passat Wagen with 30v V6-67000 Miles

DAS AUTO

CHANGE YOUR FUEL LINES!

A post without pictures is useless

http://www.kayakwesty.com

http://www.waldensridgewhitewater.com/
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westyventures
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kayakwesty wrote:

No they actually install the Overland Kit, (the few that are left ) here is the same pic from the Autobahn site, which is the same pic from Overland that use to be up, you can see the same pic by using the wayback machine for old websites

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Steve I know has set-up a killer TDI for a local customer, and its a straight up TDI even with the donor console now the console for the Vanagon and it uses the hot wire controls for the gas petal etc


All I know that everyone has seen my (his work) ABA setup is amazed at the quality work of the install, the wiring is bomber, the brackets are a work of art, even down to the motor mount. The exhaust system he now uses even uses the flex connector from MKIV Jetta...is a great piece of engineering.It looks factory thru and thru and not piece-mealed at all.

I wouldn't be posting if I didn't think Steve did good work...


Overland hasn't sold these kits for at least four or five years. The few that they sold were poor performers, partially because they simply used an AAZ pump. I wrote to Autobahn in the past to advise them to take down the image of that kit since it is NLA, but yep, there it is, still.

I can't comment on their current work, but this one just isn't well done. There are no works of art present on this conversion. I sincerely hope that it was a one-only effort. And nothing on this conversion was done the way I would have advised, had my advice been sought as was originally stated.
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kayakwesty
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No they actually install the Overland Kit, (the few that are left )


You need to go to his shop..it's called inventory


I'm outta here ...Simply amazing to be slamming a competitor on a internet forum…nice business plan…which reminds me..



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1984 Westy 2.0 Jetta ABA Motor/1.8 head converted to auto tranny, with 180,000 on body, 55K on engine and transmission

B.5.5 Passat Wagen with 30v V6-67000 Miles

DAS AUTO

CHANGE YOUR FUEL LINES!

A post without pictures is useless

http://www.kayakwesty.com

http://www.waldensridgewhitewater.com/
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