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Autocrossing the 58 rag
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OTO X58
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capsoval wrote:
I call bullshit.....As soon as that beast is done, were gonna be looking for every opportunity to take it to the track.......then making it faster.


No way dude. That's always been your routine, not mine! I've always had the slow cars that I actually get to drive, not the blistering fast cars that are always broken. (ok, ok, my cars are always broken too. I'm not going to try and bullshit.) 200hp is actually more than I want, in order to try and keep the transmission together without having to spend huge bucks. My pro-street tranny with freeway flyer gears and a welded diff needs to last a little while, at least.


Made some progress this weekend, and I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. It's nice when a plan actually works the way you dreamed up, rather than everything turning to shit and the plan having to be scrapped. Laughing


Got the radiator shrouding all mocked up. I first used cardboard to get the shape right, then cut it out of MDF so it'd be a little stiffer and more closely resemble the sheetmetal that I will use in the end:

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The shroud will lay on top of the gas tank, with two holes in it for the gas tank mounting bolts. On the front side of it, it'll be held in place by those two top bolts from the hood latch. I am thinking that I will make it out of steel, bend it on a brake, and then paint it black. Whenever I get to the point where I paint the car, I will paint the shroud body-color.

I also nearly finished the bottom radiator support and scoop:

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It bolts on from underneath, so it can be removed from the car:
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Here is the spot where the radiator ended up. It's sitting nearly vertical, with a slight tilt backwards. That seemed to me to be the best angle so that the opening behind the radiator would be big enough to give the exhaust air some space to get out.

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You can hardly see it once the car is on the ground:

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And it sits about a half inch higher than the beam:

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It's shaping up nicely. Almost time to start worrying about coolant lines!
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RIP HBB 10.10.84 - 12.25.09
Autocross 1958 Rag Build - Subaru Swap!
1957 Gazelle Beige Ghia find
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OTO X58
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgot to add these pics:

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I made some kick panel mockups, to mount the Megasquirt computer and related fuses and relays. I will cut them out of aluminum, and add a bracket at the bottom to keep them in place so that it doesn't rely completely on that rear seat brace. But for now, I am just going to make sure that it all fits.
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Mooosman
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OTO X58 wrote:


I am worried that the exhaust might be too loud, but I am going to try out the 2.5 Magnaflow first, because I have a used one in the garage already, and if it's too loud I will switch it out with something quieter.




The Magnaflow is a little loud. I have a WRX exhaust manifold set with a 2.5" Magnaflow, and it's a little much for my taste. I'm putting a quieter muffler setup on my EJ22 pretty soon. This is in a 69 bug.

I have the WRX manifold flipped around to face the back of the car:
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Nick


BTW: What size wheels/tires are you running, and how much wider are those fenders? Great project, btw! Cool
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Zach Thomas
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm really liking the radiator set up, nice work Cool I hope someday I can an ej22 with my 69!
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OTO X58
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mooosman wrote:



The Magnaflow is a little loud. I have a WRX exhaust manifold set with a 2.5" Magnaflow, and it's a little much for my taste. I'm putting a quieter muffler setup on my EJ22 pretty soon.


Nick


BTW: What size wheels/tires are you running, and how much wider are those fenders? Great project, btw! Cool


Hi Nick, thanks for the comments! I am familiar with your car, I've been watching your progress over at Shoptalkforums. And my buddy Jeff is the guy that welded up those carburetor manifolds that you were using on your ej22 before you swapped to injection. Very cool car, and I do like the way you used exhaust tubing under the car!

When Jeff did the WRX swap on my dad's 914, my dad insisted on rubber lines under the car. His logic was that if the car ever got bottomed out on a driveway or something, the rubber would flex and spring back, rather than staying dented and pinching off the flow. But on the other hand, I like the idea of metal lines being more resistant to punctures and scrapes. So I am still not decided how to do it, but I am leaning towards rubber because Jeff has enough left over from the 914 for my car, so it'd be free.

I tried my header flipped backwards, but because I moved my engine forward, the header hits the cradle mount. Still, I probably will end up with it flipped backwards like yours, with a custom pipe connecting the two sides.

I just recently found out that my fenders are 2 inches wider, front and rear, and they came from Glass Action. To be honest, they're not very good quality. There are big lumpy mold marks showing, and the wheel well lip is fairly inconsistent in thickness. If you're thinking of using wide fenders, the Creative Car Craft ones are seriously far better quality, but they only offer the rears in 1.5 or 3 inch.

Zach Thomas wrote:
I'm really liking the radiator set up, nice work Cool I hope someday I can an ej22 with my 69!


Thanks dude! I can't wait to get it all finished up and drive it!
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RIP HBB 10.10.84 - 12.25.09
Autocross 1958 Rag Build - Subaru Swap!
1957 Gazelle Beige Ghia find
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Mooosman
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OTO X58 wrote:


Hi Nick, thanks for the comments! I am familiar with your car, I've been watching your progress over at Shoptalkforums. And my buddy Jeff is the guy that welded up those carburetor manifolds that you were using on your ej22 before you swapped to injection. Very cool car, and I do like the way you used exhaust tubing under the car!

When Jeff did the WRX swap on my dad's 914, my dad insisted on rubber lines under the car. His logic was that if the car ever got bottomed out on a driveway or something, the rubber would flex and spring back, rather than staying dented and pinching off the flow. But on the other hand, I like the idea of metal lines being more resistant to punctures and scrapes. So I am still not decided how to do it, but I am leaning towards rubber because Jeff has enough left over from the 914 for my car, so it'd be free.



Jeff does some nice work, and I still have his shortened oil pan and coolant crossover on the car. I switched from the carbs to injection to get better drivability for the daily grind.

I understand your dad's logic about the rubber lines, but I wouldn't go that direction just because of the danger of ripping a hose open. Yes, with the steel tubes it's possible to dent the pipe, but it isn't going to rip open and dump all your coolant. My steel pipes have some give in them, as they are mounted with metal/rubber exhaust mounts.

Are you going to add a filler neck to your radiator? I don't see one in the pic. I also have an Afco rad, and it's a nice piece, though there are a couple modifications I'm going to make when I have it out next time. Mainly, I'm going to extend the filler neck to make it easier to fill, and I'm going to have a 1.5" outlet welded to the bottom outlet to replace the 1.75" one that it comes with. I'm assuming yours is similar.

I will also say that you may want to look at adding another fill point at the back of the car, to make it easier to bleed the system of air. I have a small filler tank from a Mazda MX6 teed into the upper hose on the engine. It has a radiator cap on it, so when I first fill the system I can leave the caps off the front and rear, and run the engine. When the thermostat opens, the air bubbles then find their way to the top of the Mazda filler tank. I found this system easier than using a bleeder valve on the engine (not to mention that you can't get to the coolant crossover when the EFI manifold is in place).

One last thing: if you use the thermostat housing from a turbo engine, it will point towards the front of the car. The regular EJ22 housing makes the hose point towards the passenger fender.

Keep the photos coming!

Nick
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Capsoval
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have rubber lines down the bottom of my car as well. There is always a risk in what ever choice is made, but as far as the rubber lines go they are very resilient. It would take a truly serious event to tear through one of these hoses.

With rubber lines, it could be torn or yanked off causing you to lose fluid. With steel lines, it could get smashed cutting off coolant flow.
Obviously both will cause a cooling issue, at least with the rubber lines you'll get a nice steam rooster tail letting you know there is a problem. Cool
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bugntjw
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas,
You probably already figured out how to "Burp" front radiator/rear engine with your dad's 914,but, if not, look-up how to do it in a Fiero. That may help? Reason I think of this...bought one a couple of months ago.

speaking of which...see any when you autocross? How do they do?

Cannot wait to see the Rag when finished. Keep the updates coming.
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Joel
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your looking for muffler ideas heres mine

Cos my cars pretty low and the roads round here are shit I needed lots of ground clearance so i took an NA EJ20 and chopped it down.
That and a CustomVW shortend sump my ground clearance is now the same as a vw engine

Sounds awesome too.

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OTO X58
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick update before heading to work; I made some little support gussets for the scoop and got my friend Jeff to Tig weld them on for me. Totally improved the look of the thing, making it look a lot more solid and durable!

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Mooosman
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joel wrote:


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Got rid of the cheap stainless muffler, eh?

What is this new one off of?
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2true
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really diggin this build!
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zombie
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was never really into the idea of watercooled motors in bugs but this build is really changing my mind. The air dam looks sick. I always dug the no-bullshit look of your car.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very cool, Tommy.
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Joel
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mooosman wrote:


Got rid of the cheap stainless muffler, eh?

What is this new one off of?


Yea, was forever breaking when I bottomed out

New one is just a universal mercury galvanised muffler, single tip this time

Sound hasnt changed though, I still get mistaken coming up the road for the neighbours STI WRX Laughing
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OTO X58
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bugntjw wrote:
Thomas,
You probably already figured out how to "Burp" front radiator/rear engine with your dad's 914,but, if not, look-up how to do it in a Fiero. That may help? Reason I think of this...bought one a couple of months ago.

speaking of which...see any when you autocross? How do they do?

Cannot wait to see the Rag when finished. Keep the updates coming.


You know, honestly, I don't think I have ever seen a Fiero at the autocrosses. I will read up on burping the coolant system. And thanks to yours and a couple of other comments, I will also add a rear reservior to aid in the process. Thanks!

Joel wrote:
If your looking for muffler ideas heres mine

Cos my cars pretty low and the roads round here are shit I needed lots of ground clearance so i took an NA EJ20 and chopped it down.
That and a CustomVW shortend sump my ground clearance is now the same as a vw engine

Sounds awesome too.


Nice and simple. I like it. I'm going to check out those Outfront stub pipes, but if they don't give enough extra clearance, I'll just stick with the WRX header and just modify it to fit, like you did with that EJ20 header.

2true wrote:
Really diggin this build!

chickengeorge wrote:
Very cool, Tommy.


Thanks guys! Means a lot.
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RIP HBB 10.10.84 - 12.25.09
Autocross 1958 Rag Build - Subaru Swap!
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Badvw68
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once you get all the bugs worked out with the new swap to the subaru, your going to love it....

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

those pipes look crazy low ^^^

love the project and the enkei wheels, though i was hoping for some type 4 build porn, the suby swap gonna have to do. love the front radiator mount!
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73 KAFER
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Badvw68 wrote:
Once you get all the bugs worked out with the new swap to the subaru, your going to love it....

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Nice Bug, can you really get out of the driveway without scraping the bottom of the exhaust? That puppy hangs low....price ones pay when retro-fitting, anyways good job guys.


Mark
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Zach Thomas
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gah I hate seeing all these subi swaps. Now I REALLY want to do it with my car Laughing Hopefully all of you are still around to help with working out problems Laughing
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