Anyone use PENETROL on their poptop?

[Terry Kay]

Two items of interest ;

First , the tops are not all painted from new.
The color is in the gel coat which is blown into the mold first, then the layers of fiberglass follows.

Second, as the sun bakes onto the gel coat, the UV dries it up, and the color is getting washed out of it.

With the Pentrol your adding the oils back into it so the color becomes vibrant again, and does offer UV protection.

All's the penetrol is doing is fortifying the glass with the oils that are baked out of it.


Pretty simple, real easy, don't try and make a real simple operation complicated with unknowledgeable , non facts, & claims.

Take the stuff for what it is, and don't try and make this simple operation heart surgery.
It isn't.
_________________
T.K.

[j_dirge]

The later Westy tops are not polyester resin like you see used in blown glass layup (most boats.. certainly most ALL boats prior to '85 or so....) They behave more like a vinylester and look to be "injected" and vacuum formed..
The color coating does not behave like traditional gelcoat.

The later tops do not get brittle like a traditional polyester f/g layup.

There are no "oils" in either type of resin. Traditional solvents like "paint thinner".. and "mineral spirits" will not soften anything on a Westy top.. except perhaps the bonding agent of the flocking on the inside.
.
Penetrol is a traditional solvent based material.

These tops are plastics. Different chemical makeup.. Different type of breakdown in UV exposure.
Putting "oil" on plastic does nothing but create an oil film on the plastic.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

[bobbyblack]

Well, here is how mine turned out:

Before washing top with pumice cleanser:

After wash:

After Penetrol.

Quite happy.
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[Terry Kay]

I wonder how that top not being fiberglass absorbed and got the mold stains all over the surface?
Acually it wasn't even all mold, it was bagged out, UV milked out gelcoat.

Being some kind of space age urethane it wouldn't absorb this kind of stains, and most certainly Wouldn't absorb the Penetrol.

I'm sorry, I cannot see the pools of the sealer all over the top.
Did you squeegee all of the excess swimming pools of the penetrol off of it?

Looks Nice.
_________________
T.K.

[bobbyblack]

T.K.

Ya, that stuff was some kind of lichen as far as I could tell. Maybe just mold, but it looked to be a colony of some sort. Cleanser with pumice, a stiff brush, and a hose, took about 1/2 hour to clean. Let dry in sun for another half hour, then started treatment.

Thought I followed the advice pretty well. Spread the liquid out with a big sponge in as even a thick layer as I could, waited a few minutes and went over it with shop towels to even it out more and get a start layer down. Let dry about an hour. Repeated second coat. Thick, let stand a bit, wiped off excess. Seems darn fine to me. I am considering doing it again when I pull off the old seal before I replace it (them, I guess, as its multiple pieces). The crud under the seal edge is apparent, as it is somewhat loose.
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[Merian]

[j_dirge]

[DwarfVader]

For the record I sit in neither camp here, this thread is entertaining and has been informative, even if I've had to sift through the measuring contest.

Nothing in penetrol has any sort of UV protection... at all...

Safety Data Sheet for Penetrol

Petroleum naphtha

Ethylbenzene

Medium Naphtha


incase the tinyurl link for the safety data sheet doesn't work, here is the URL for it:
https://buyat.ppg.com/ehsdocumentmanagerpublic/documentsearchinnerframe.aspx?CodeValue=00409126&CodeCondition=IsEqualTo&Language=en-US&Form=53bd5d15b2c796a10000&SuppressSearchControls=True
_________________
- oderint dum metuant -

I'll find my van someday, or it will find me.

[Merian]

a lot of the boar forums say it has no UV protection

but... don't confuse chemicals listed in a MSDS with the total contents of a product; the MSDS only lists things that the govt. has identified as safety issues needed special handling

all other chemicals will not be in the MSDS
_________________
....

[j_dirge]

[j_dirge]

Cut and Paste from a Mcguires forum:

e: Instant Gratification on Chalky fiberglass

View Post
Faded, chalky fiberglass boats can be a lot of work. Sometimes the ez way is better. Try Penetrol, and you'll know what i mean. Found in hardware stores in paint section. Will last only a few weeks but it works fast. Works on RV's, too.

Quote Originally Posted by Tuck91

View Post
How can a protective coating remove oxidation off fiberglass?

Sometimes the hard way is better as well, as in polishing with M49.


Quote Originally Posted by J. A. Michaels

View Post
I agree with the others. Fix the problem. Repeat customer. Charging him to keep coming back every couple of weeks. Not a long term solution. Would not be building a stable customer base.
While we have no doubts that this product will improve the appearance, we're with the other guys on this one. DetailArtist, even you admit the improvement only lasts a few weeks - are your customers happy with a "fix" that is really that temporary? If so, fine, but we know a lot of folks that would be looking for a refund if their boats reverted back to what they were so quickly.

It sounds sort of like the gel coat equivalent of just loading badly swirled paint with a lot of glaze and calling it a day. If a short term solution is all that's needed then, again, fine. All depends on what you, and your customer's, expectations are.

Read more at http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forumsshowthread.php...ixgsq3J.99
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

[j_dirge]

[DwarfVader]

As far as I can tell... it has no UV protection... the manufacturer doesn't mention UV protection. *shrug*
_________________
- oderint dum metuant -

I'll find my van someday, or it will find me.

[Terry Kay]

How many of you guys have actually used the stuff, and from that point of experience formed an educated opinon?

The answer is from My Own Practical Experience ;
Two wipes in spring of the first season, no sponge just an old T- shirt.
One the next spring.

Now, I know full well that you kill more time screwing around on the computer keyboard than this pop top rejuvenating application would take, but yet you naysayers have an opinion, have the answers.

Good.
It represents zero.
Zip.
Nada.
And if you want to know what's in it, you'll have to buy the can.
It's all printed on the back of it.

Vader, don't even chime in with much of anything.
You're still on training wheels.
Haven't applied a coat of wax to a 1980 Vanagon rotten to the bottom of the window sills yet.
You have nothing to compare , voice your opinion on .

Buy a Van, and then become an instant expert.
_________________
T.K.

[DwarfVader]

Just because I don't own a van doesn't mean I haven't used penetrol...

but... that being said... as I said before and you failed to catch.

I have no dog in this fight... Wasn't calling you or them out, nor speaking to the usefulness of penetrol on a top.

Merely pointing out that penetrol does not have or offer UV protection... Which if anything agrees with almost everything you've said. (as obviously a covered top will see less wear than an uncovered top due to more UV exposure.)

Relax TK... not everyone is out to get you or argue with you.
_________________
- oderint dum metuant -

I'll find my van someday, or it will find me.

[bobbyblack]

Wow, so we got to talking about UV protection. Im just riveted to this now.

So, lets say, for instance, I just put this mystery oil on my rig, and all of a sudden, even though I din't even begin to imagine that it was UV protection as well as a good way to spruce up my top... Well, what now? Put UV protection on top, to make sure I preserve the top? Ok, I agree, lets do what we can. But, like the Apollo mission space suits in the museums: ITS STILL GONNA DECAY. Time is not under our control. All we can do is try to anchor in a leeward shoal.

So, now that I have it looking nice, what would you all think of a UV layer that just might, possibly, by a minuscule chance, be easy to rub it with a couple pre-moistened wipes, maybe armor all? Would that stick? Maybe we need a molecular science expert to fill us in on why putting A-all on top of P-trol is not equal Z-bom and we all still have to put SPF-50 on every 90 minutes. Sign me up. Im more of a horseshoes guy, than a micrometer toting spreadsheet noting endlessly calculating kind-o of guy, Pick, do, go on to next. Repeat.

No?
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[DwarfVader]

[Terry Kay]

<<So, lets say, for instance, I just put this mystery oil on my rig, and all of a sudden, even though I din't even begin to imagine that it was UV protection as well as a good way to spruce up my top... Well, what now? Put UV protection on top, to make sure I preserve the top? Ok, I agree, lets do what we can. But, like the Apollo mission space suits in the museums: ITS STILL GONNA DECAY.>>

I'll lay this one on you. you be the judge.

Please name on item on that Van that comes with UC control from new.
NOTHING.


All's you can do is keep it waxed up ( which is all petroleum distillates-- mineral spirits whipped up ) so all wax does is ward off some of the sun's rays before it gets to the paint, the gel coat, whatever.

You resupplied the dried up fiberglass with an oiling, and all you can do is either keep the van under cover or Penetrol the top up once a year-- and wax the body a couple times a year to protect it from the sun.

All's the Penetrol does is revitalizes the color--brings it back to as close to the original color as possible, and keep it that way for as long as possible.

Even if you painted the top--it would only last for as long as it took for the sun to milk it out again--the Penetrol is just a faster way to get the job done, and one hell of a lot less expensive.


Nothing is forever.
_________________
T.K.

[Terry Kay]

<<, but it makes fiberglass look amazing... and lasts forever... can't really go wrong with 3M though.>>

No kidding--
What product in life lasts forever?
--you must have died and gone to heaven, nothing here on earth lasts forever--
even if 3-M did make the stuff--
_________________
T.K.

[DwarfVader]