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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 6:33 am Post subject: Terrible steering wheel wobble but ONLY between 45-50mph? FIXED |
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Haven't posted here in a while but need some advice-- I have a bad steering wheel shake/ wobble on my 69 right around 45-50mph. Before and after that speed no problems whatsoever, only within that speed range. My first thought (obviously) is an unbalanced wheel, but if I steer slightly to the right during the wobble it goes away. My tie rods all seem OK-- could this be a steering damper issue? Or still be an unbalanced wheel even if I can steer it out? Thx _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor
Last edited by sb001 on Sun Apr 14, 2024 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9751 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 6:50 am Post subject: Re: Terrible steering wheel wobble but ONLY between 45-50mph..? |
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It's free to check the damper.
I had a few that acted like what you are describing. A replacement damper fixed the issue. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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bsairhead Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008 Posts: 3559 Location: viroqua wi.
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 6:54 am Post subject: Re: Terrible steering wheel wobble but ONLY between 45-50mph..? |
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Sounds like a broken tire belt to me. My Thing did that before new tires. |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31358 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Terrible steering wheel wobble but ONLY between 45-50mph..? |
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67rustavenger wrote: |
It's free to check the damper.
I had a few that acted like what you are describing. A replacement damper fixed the issue. |
If damper checks out OK (may have to remove it to check it), then maybe try swapping the rear wheels to the front.
Not a "VW" example:
In 2022, on my 1988 Mazda truck, I developed a steering wheel wobble at about 65mph. Since I needed rear tires I couldn't just swap rears to front to try. Since I had some torn boots and either lifetime-warrantied or closeout tie rod ends and ball joints, I installed those and new tensioner bushings and sway bar bushings. Needed those, but that didn't help. I then noticed a loose steering shaft coupler due to the threads in the coupler being stripped (had never touched that before, and I've owned the truck since 1994); so that was repaired by using a longer bolt, lockwasher, and nut. Needed that, but that didn't help. So I drove to the tire shop, turned out that my front tires had become out of balance, but when I asked them if that would've been the cause of the wobble, they wouldn't confirm. So I bought two tires to replace the two worn ones, had those installed on the front, and the wobble was gone. So in my instance was likely the tires all along. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Terrible steering wheel wobble but ONLY between 45-50mph..? |
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Cusser wrote: |
67rustavenger wrote: |
It's free to check the damper.
I had a few that acted like what you are describing. A replacement damper fixed the issue. |
If damper checks out OK (may have to remove it to check it), then maybe try swapping the rear wheels to the front.
Not a "VW" example:
In 2022, on my 1988 Mazda truck, I developed a steering wheel wobble at about 65mph. Since I needed rear tires I couldn't just swap rears to front to try. Since I had some torn boots and either lifetime-warrantied or closeout tie rod ends and ball joints, I installed those and new tensioner bushings and sway bar bushings. Needed those, but that didn't help. I then noticed a loose steering shaft coupler due to the threads in the coupler being stripped (had never touched that before, and I've owned the truck since 1994); so that was repaired by using a longer bolt, lockwasher, and nut. Needed that, but that didn't help. So I drove to the tire shop, turned out that my front tires had become out of balance, but when I asked them if that would've been the cause of the wobble, they wouldn't confirm. So I bought two tires to replace the two worn ones, had those installed on the front, and the wobble was gone. So in my instance was likely the tires all along. |
Hi Cusser, that was exactly my plan of action-- swap the fronts and rears and see if it goes away, in fact I might try that first before the steering damper.
Followup question- is it possible to remove the steering damper without having to remove the passenger tie rod? (Or at least pop out the inner tie rod end) to get that end of the damper out of it? That end of the damper appears to be blocked by the front frame head from being able to clear the tie rod _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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RLFD213 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 331
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Terrible steering wheel wobble but ONLY between 45-50mph..? |
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Rotate the tires and see if the wabble changes |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9751 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Terrible steering wheel wobble but ONLY between 45-50mph..? |
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Quote: |
Followup question- is it possible to remove the steering damper without having to remove the passenger tie rod? |
I've never had to remove a tie rod to change a damper.
But I have older vw's so maybe the 69 has something in the way.
Lifting/removing the fuel tank will help with the access to the damper. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31358 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Terrible steering wheel wobble but ONLY between 45-50mph..? |
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Make sure the front tires have equal pressures. And are not out of round, like when you jack up front and spin a tire.
sb001 wrote: |
Followup question- is it possible to remove the steering damper without having to remove the passenger tie rod? |
ABSOLUTELY !!!!
And, the fuel tank does NOT need to be removed either. You do not need to remove the wheels either.
The "trick" is to turn the steering wheel so there's access to remove the angled, threaded end. Do all from underneath, wear safety glasses. Should be a 10 minute or less job to remove, half of that will be putting front on jack stands. 10 minute replacement too.
Once the damper is out, push and pull on it feeling for dead spots or lack of resistance. Pretty much same theory as a shock absorber. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33990 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Terrible steering wheel wobble but ONLY between 45-50mph..? |
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A bad damper is NEVER the cause of this. A good damper can mask the source of the problem:
- out of round wheels
- imbalanced wheels
- detached belts inside tires
- loose steering system (tie rod ends, pitman arm)
- loose suspension bits (ball joints, king/link pins)
- bent steering/suspension bits that create large misalignment
The damper is not intended to solve wobble. it's purpose is to dampen the shock to your grip on the steering wheel if you hit an obstacle/pothole while driving.
If a new damper seems to fix it, it will just be worn out quickly by the REAL problem. _________________ Current Fleet:
'71 Fastback
'69 Westfalia
Retired:
'67 Beetle
'65 Beetle (x2)
'65 Bus
'71 Squareback |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Terrible steering wheel wobble but ONLY between 45-50mph? FIXED |
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So... I did remove the steering damper and tested it, from full extension to about 1/4 of the way in it had very little resistance, and plus felt a little "notchy." But then from that point onward it had a lot of resistance. I tend to agree that this may have been the cause of excess play in my steering but probably not the wobbling. Anyway since I already had it out and I had another one (NOS Nakata) in my parts stash, I decided to go ahead and replace it anyway.
Then I swapped the front and rear wheels (front crossed over to rears, and rears stayed on the same sides of the car up to the front.) Adjusted the tire inflation, took it for a spin, and no more wobble. Steering play significantly reduced as well. Not 100% sure which really fixed it, but at least I can drive it now without having a heart attack. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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bsairhead Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008 Posts: 3559 Location: viroqua wi.
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Terrible steering wheel wobble but ONLY between 45-50mph? FIXED |
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sb001 wrote: |
So... I did remove the steering damper and tested it, from full extension to about 1/4 of the way in it had very little resistance, and plus felt a little "notchy." But then from that point onward it had a lot of resistance. I tend to agree that this may have been the cause of excess play in my steering but probably not the wobbling. Anyway since I already had it out and I had another one (NOS Nakata) in my parts stash, I decided to go ahead and replace it anyway.
Then I swapped the front and rear wheels (front crossed over to rears, and rears stayed on the same sides of the car up to the front.) Adjusted the tire inflation, took it for a spin, and no more wobble. Steering play significantly reduced as well. Not 100% sure which really fixed it, but at least I can drive it now without having a heart attack. |
I wish you would have done one first and reported back. It's like the guy who has a dead spot and replaces his carburetor and distributor and says it's fixed. Now you need to re-rotate the tires. |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Terrible steering wheel wobble but ONLY between 45-50mph? FIXED |
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bsairhead wrote: |
I wish you would have done one first and reported back. It's like the guy who has a dead spot and replaces his carburetor and distributor and says it's fixed. Now you need to re-rotate the tires. |
Yeah, I thought about that after I did it. Oh well-- According to an above poster it could not have been the steering damper anyway, so I'll go with the bad or out-of-round tire theory. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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bsairhead Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008 Posts: 3559 Location: viroqua wi.
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Terrible steering wheel wobble but ONLY between 45-50mph? FIXED |
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sb001 wrote: |
bsairhead wrote: |
I wish you would have done one first and reported back. It's like the guy who has a dead spot and replaces his carburetor and distributor and says it's fixed. Now you need to re-rotate the tires. |
Yeah, I thought about that after I did it. Oh well-- According to an above poster it could not have been the steering damper anyway, so I'll go with the bad or out-of-round tire theory. |
How far off was the tire pressure? |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Terrible steering wheel wobble but ONLY between 45-50mph? FIXED |
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bsairhead wrote: |
sb001 wrote: |
bsairhead wrote: |
I wish you would have done one first and reported back. It's like the guy who has a dead spot and replaces his carburetor and distributor and says it's fixed. Now you need to re-rotate the tires. |
Yeah, I thought about that after I did it. Oh well-- According to an above poster it could not have been the steering damper anyway, so I'll go with the bad or out-of-round tire theory. |
How far off was the tire pressure? |
The tire pressure was dead on--18 in front and 27 in back.
Of course since I swapped tires front and back I then had to re-adjust.
To be honest the other reason I really lean toward a bad or unbalanced tire is because this exact same issue happened decades ago on a Chevy Cavalier I had, even down to the same speed range. I had just gotten new tires put on, and I took it back to the tire shop thinking I got a bad tire, only to have them tell me their balance machine was mis-calibrated and they had had several other customers come back with the same issue.
So at some point I'll just probably have the tires inspected. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor
Last edited by sb001 on Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31358 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Terrible steering wheel wobble but ONLY between 45-50mph? FIXED |
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bsairhead wrote: |
I wish you would have done one first and reported back. It's like the guy who has a dead spot and replaces his carburetor and distributor and says it's fixed. Now you need to re-rotate the tires. |
I also might've done both at once; I would've wanted it fixed more than "knowing".
For example, in the Mazda truck instance I posted, after the tire shop rebalanced the two decent front tires, I didn't care if that would've been the cause, I'd get no "glory" in being right and showing the tire guys that the imbalance WAS enough to cause the issue. So for me putting the brand new tires on the front fixed it, with the rebalanced tires now on the rear. And that's fine with me.
sb001 did say his damper was wonky so he was fine with replacing that anyway. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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