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zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2060
Location: Plano, TX USA
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 Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:35 pm Post subject: 79 convertible AC install |
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My 79 originally came with the dealer installed AC. I wanted to get it running again and after some thinking I have decided to go with a Gilmore Enterprises AC kit.
I have decided to keep the original evaporator and maybe the controls. Everything else is getting replaced.
I took the old system out of the car.
I cleaned and kept the evaporator system as it is in great shape and works strong and it was already fitted to the car. This is picture before I removed it.
The original controls which still work.
Old dryer. The new one will go inside the trunk.
I made a small “air box” to relocate the driver side outlet. The one the dealer installed worked with the old York compressor but not with the new one.
Compressor installed on the new bracket.
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zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2060
Location: Plano, TX USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:38 pm Post subject: Re: 79 convertible AC install |
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Here it is with the engine running. Next step will be the condenser unit install under the transmission.
Link
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Kafer Wolf
Samba Member
Joined: September 18, 2003
Posts: 333
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:55 am Post subject: Re: 79 convertible AC install |
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Where's the best place to put the condenser?
When I had a/c installed, the shop put it in the spare tire well.
I had it moved under the car, near the transmission.
But now the gear oil filler is inaccesible.
In both places though, my a/c won't work right.
The thermostat won't click even if replaced.
So I was thinking maybe the condenser does not get enough air to cool it down?
I've heard some people put it behind the front axle.
Is that good? |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31362
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:41 am Post subject: Re: 79 convertible AC install |
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You should start your own Thread/Post.
| Kafer Wolf wrote: |
Where's the best place to put the condenser?
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Condenser needs good air flow. Either up front or underneath: needs to have a good electric fan moving the air over it.
Dealer-added AC before about 1970 had twin condensers by the rear axles. My own 1970 had the DPD dealer-added AC and its condenser was mounted up front of the front suspension, and had an electric fan there.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2060
Location: Plano, TX USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: 79 convertible AC install |
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| Kafer Wolf wrote: |
Where's the best place to put the condenser?
When I had a/c installed, the shop put it in the spare tire well.
I had it moved under the car, near the transmission.
But now the gear oil filler is inaccesible.
In both places though, my a/c won't work right.
The thermostat won't click even if replaced.
So I was thinking maybe the condenser does not get enough air to cool it down?
I've heard some people put it behind the front axle.
Is that good? |
I’m happy to share my experience.
The GE kit has a double condenser that attaches to the spring plates of the rear wheels. It has 2 big electric fans to pull air through it. You can drop it by removing the 2 bolts and loosening the other 3 bolts. Very easy.
Here’s a picture of it mounted. I did not remove the protective packaging yet.
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zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2060
Location: Plano, TX USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: 79 convertible AC install |
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| Next step is routing the hoses. I am working on it and ordered an A/C hose crimp as the hoses I have were not cut completely to length because I do have to custom do some stuff. |
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Kafer Wolf
Samba Member
Joined: September 18, 2003
Posts: 333
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:41 am Post subject: Re: 79 convertible AC install |
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| zoti wrote: |
| Kafer Wolf wrote: |
Where's the best place to put the condenser?
When I had a/c installed, the shop put it in the spare tire well.
I had it moved under the car, near the transmission.
But now the gear oil filler is inaccesible.
In both places though, my a/c won't work right.
The thermostat won't click even if replaced.
So I was thinking maybe the condenser does not get enough air to cool it down?
I've heard some people put it behind the front axle.
Is that good? |
I’m happy to share my experience.
The GE kit has a double condenser that attaches to the spring plates of the rear wheels. It has 2 big electric fans to pull air through it. You can drop it by removing the 2 bolts and loosening the other 3 bolts. Very easy.
Here’s a picture of it mounted. I did not remove the protective packaging yet.
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Thanks, man! This really helped! |
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zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2060
Location: Plano, TX USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: 79 convertible AC install |
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Kind of finished in the engine bay. Everything is extremely tight.
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KAmes
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 876
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: 79 convertible AC install |
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Looks great! That evaporator is interesting, I assume you'll use the Gilmore expansion valve. I recently installed a Gilmore kit in my VW Thing, ended up making up parts of it as I went as it wouldn't quite fit the same (being a Thing).
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...;start=180 (scroll down the page a bit)
Something to look out for is the way Gilmore has the condenser fans and compressor clutch wired together. When the thermostat cycles off the fans coast down and act as a temporary generator keeping the compressor clutch engaged for a moment. This would be fine except as it loses power the clutch disengages gradually and slips, I could hear the metal scraping as it let go. An extra relay for the clutch solved this, now it clicks on and off like you would expect. Also I don't know which hose crimper you bought, I bought the manual Mastercool one. The directions say to crimp it down to the indicator line, this was not good enough for the high side hose. After some leaks I got better results just crushing it as tight as I could get it. I'm looking forward to seeing how yours turns out, I'm thinking about buying a second one for my beetle. |
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zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2060
Location: Plano, TX USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:54 am Post subject: Re: 79 convertible AC install |
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| KAmes wrote: |
Looks great! That evaporator is interesting, I assume you'll use the Gilmore expansion valve. I recently installed a Gilmore kit in my VW Thing, ended up making up parts of it as I went as it wouldn't quite fit the same (being a Thing).
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...;start=180 (scroll down the page a bit)
Something to look out for is the way Gilmore has the condenser fans and compressor clutch wired together. When the thermostat cycles off the fans coast down and act as a temporary generator keeping the compressor clutch engaged for a moment. This would be fine except as it loses power the clutch disengages gradually and slips, I could hear the metal scraping as it let go. An extra relay for the clutch solved this, now it clicks on and off like you would expect. Also I don't know which hose crimper you bought, I bought the manual Mastercool one. The directions say to crimp it down to the indicator line, this was not good enough for the high side hose. After some leaks I got better results just crushing it as tight as I could get it. I'm looking forward to seeing how yours turns out, I'm thinking about buying a second one for my beetle. |
Yes, they sent me an expansion valve.I ordered some adaptors as Gilmore uses o-ring type connectors and the evaporator has flare type connectors.
I got the hydraulic type crimper. Still waiting for it to come.
The car had AC from the dealer so it actually has controls already installed along with wires fro the then dealer installed fan and a wire fro the compressor clutch. I am planing to use what's already there and get it to run.
You did some nice work on your A/C. I will probably have some questions for you once I move forward with it. Right now I'm waiting on the adapters and crimper. |
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BugCaster
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2015
Posts: 77
Location: North Carolina Piedmont
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:36 am Post subject: Re: 79 convertible AC install |
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I will definitely be following this thread. My 78 came with installed A/C also and have been considering getting the Gilmore unit. What you are doing is exactly what I have wondered about: using some of the present equipment like the evaporator in conjunction with the new. I considered trying to restore the old unit and recharge with left over R12 but the York compressor is just too power hungry.
Luckily, I have my 608 certificate and all the refrigerant tools. Please keep updating how this conversion goes. |
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zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2060
Location: Plano, TX USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:23 am Post subject: Re: 79 convertible AC install |
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| BugCaster wrote: |
I will definitely be following this thread. My 78 came with installed A/C also and have been considering getting the Gilmore unit. What you are doing is exactly what I have wondered about: using some of the present equipment like the evaporator in conjunction with the new. I considered trying to restore the old unit and recharge with left over R12 but the York compressor is just too power hungry.
Luckily, I have my 608 certificate and all the refrigerant tools. Please keep updating how this conversion goes. |
I just got the crimp tool today so hopefully I will make some progress. Still waiting in the two adapters I need. |
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77kafer
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2008
Posts: 823
Location: New Windsor, NY
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: 79 convertible AC install |
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If anyone needs a brand new A/C clutch part # ZAW 251 132 I have one available $100.
_________________
Supposed to be 77käfer, but there are no umlauts on an american keyboard
Overheard on 27 June 07, one lady to another when they saw my Harli in a parking lot at West Point, "maybe he found it on the clearance aisle at the Volkswagen dealer" |
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Multi69s
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31362
Location: Hot Arizona
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zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2060
Location: Plano, TX USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:29 am Post subject: Re: 79 convertible AC install |
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| Multi69s wrote: |
| How and what did you use to clean /flush the original evaporator? A very important step to insure that all R12, oil and other contaminants are cleaned out. |
The guys at Gilmore told me to use denatured alcohol which you can get at Lowe’s. I ran it through a few times and blew out with compressed air until it came out clean. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31362
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:36 am Post subject: Re: 79 convertible AC install |
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| zoti wrote: |
| Multi69s wrote: |
| How and what did you use to clean /flush the original evaporator? A very important step to insure that all R12, oil and other contaminants are cleaned out. |
The guys at Gilmore told me to use denatured alcohol which you can get at Lowe’s. I ran it through a few times and blew out with compressed air until it came out clean. |
I think denatured alcohol (polar molecule) would work great to clean out ester oil or PAG oil from a R134a system.
However, as a chemist, I think the product I detailed, or a non-polar volatile organic solvent would be BETTER for cleaning a system with R-12 type mineral oil in it.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2060
Location: Plano, TX USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: 79 convertible AC install |
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Finally got my fittings to convert the evaporator connectors from the old flare style R12 fittings to the new O-Ring style fittings of the R134a.
Now I can make more progress.
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zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2060
Location: Plano, TX USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: 79 convertible AC install |
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Today I worked under the car finishing the installation of the condenser and hoses from the compressor and to the front.
Next step will be to route the hoses to the front and deciding on where to install the dryer.
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zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2060
Location: Plano, TX USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: 79 convertible AC install |
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Got her ass up in the air so I can access under the car.
Ran the hoses along the support rails using the holes of the old hoses to mount.
Attached the fittings to finish the hoses. I still need to wrap the copper hoses in insulating tape and tighten everything down. I bought a special clamp tool for the AC hoses as I couldn't find one to rent.
I will still need to build something to hold the dryer bottle.
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