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Westynewbie1
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2008
Posts: 42
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 Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:22 am Post subject: Propex alternatives? |
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Is there another heater on the market like the Propex?
I'm looking to buy a heater like it and just want to do some research.
The propex looks real nice, but I don't see any stats on consumtion of propane or any other specs on the actual units abilities.
Thanks. |
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maocg
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2008
Posts: 4
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| I have been running a propex for several years now. I have never really tracked my consumption. Of course there are many variables that go into how much propane is used but it seams like I can get about 8-10 nights plus or minus. The problem I ran into was the one auxiliary battery could not power everything. The battery under the seat has been pulled and replaced by 2 deep cycle batteries, one under the sink and one in the small hatch to the left of the fridge space. Problem solved with 148 amp hours. |
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sc-surfer
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2005
Posts: 865
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Love my Propex. Seem to use very little fuel. I've never run out on anything shorter than a week long trip. (using 'fridge and stove too) There are some really cool diesel heaters out there if you have a diesel rig, but I've never found a propane heater anywhere near the compact size of the Propex.
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westyventures
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2306
Location: Oregon Outback
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Propex alternatives? |
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| Westynewbie1 wrote: |
Is there another heater on the market like the Propex?
I'm looking to buy a heater like it and just want to do some research.
The propex looks real nice, but I don't see any stats on consumption of propane or any other specs on the actual units abilities.
Thanks. |
Nope, the only direct competition for a compact propane furnace, the Carver P4, was bought out by Truma of Germany and discontinued. Truma sells some nice units ($$$$) but refuse to import to the USA, I've tried. 
The specs are on my site, in a link to the Propex site: http://propexheatsource.co.uk/products01.htm#tech_spec
Note that the consumption is rated for continuous use, which is very rarely the case in a Westy. In my past experience, a Westy tank would supply enough propane to heat for a week.
Karl
www.propexusa.com |
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erdonline
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2004
Posts: 943
Location: CT
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: heaters |
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How about the Espars? I haven't done a lot of research, but I see they list a gasoline model here: http://www.espar.com/html/products/airtronic5.html
There are also vented propane heaters that people use behind the passenger seat- the plat cat, I think it's called.
Ed in CT |
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GWTWTLW
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2008
Posts: 2174
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Mr Heater also make a small tent safe propane heater that would work well in a Westy.
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89 Syncro Westy - GW 2.5, now with a double knob job
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westyventures
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2306
Location: Oregon Outback
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: heaters |
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| erdonline wrote: |
How about the Espars? I haven't done a lot of research, but I see they list a gasoline model here: http://www.espar.com/html/products/airtronic5.html
There are also vented propane heaters that people use behind the passenger seat- the plat cat, I think it's called.
Ed in CT |
The Espar furnaces are very nice units, the downside is the cost is around $1100 for the diesel version, more yet for the gas version. I use the diesel Espars in both of my personal diesel rigs.
The Plat Cat is a radiant heater. Some folks like radiant heat, others are concerned about the safety hazard. You wouldn't want to leave a pet in the van, for instance. |
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westyventures
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2306
Location: Oregon Outback
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| GWTWTLW wrote: |
| Mr Heater also make a small tent safe propane heater that would work well in a Westy. |
These 'catalytic' heaters require you to vent the van for fresh air, as they aren't designed for an air-tight room. Of course, venting cold air into the van negates some of the heat being produced by the heater... |
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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| syncrowestytd wrote: |
| GWTWTLW wrote: |
| Mr Heater also make a small tent safe propane heater that would work well in a Westy. |
These 'catalytic' heaters require you to vent the van for fresh air, as they aren't designed for an air-tight room. Of course, venting cold air into the van negates some of the heat being produced by the heater... |
Since when is a Westy an air-tight room?
A heater buddy is $65.00 and has worked well for us in Texas.
There are alternatives to Propex, I myself would look at Espar. |
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westyventures
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2306
Location: Oregon Outback
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| mightyart wrote: |
Since when is a Westy an air-tight room?
A heater buddy is $65.00 and has worked well for us in Texas.
There are alternatives to Propex, I myself would look at Espar. |
Compared to the tent use the 'buddy' was designed for, yes, a Westy is airtight by comparison. Very little air in and out, unless you pop the top. There are other disadvantages to this type heater, but if it fits your style of camping and keeps you happy, warm, and alive, go for it.
As I previously mentioned, yes, the Espar is a nice alternative, the only downside being initial cost, $1200~1400 for the gas (gasoline) model (if still available), 1100 for the diesel. I certainly won't twist anyone's arm to buy a Propex....  |
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erdonline
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2004
Posts: 943
Location: CT
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: heaters |
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Although not directly on topic, I will make a brief comment on the Mr. Buddy type heaters. I like them because they are relatively cheap, and work pretty well for me for the early spring or mid fall campouts.
But what I don't like about them is the amount of condensation they put out. When I have it running all night, my windows are dripping with condensation from the propane combustion.
For the few times a year I use it, it's not too bad, but just be aware that unvented propane heaters can produce a lot of condensation.
Ed |
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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| syncrowestytd wrote: |
| Compared to the tent use the 'buddy' was designed for, yes, a Westy is airtight by comparison. Very little air in and out, unless you pop the top. |
Of course you open the top, why have a Westy if you can't open the top?
| syncrowestytd wrote: |
| I certainly won't twist anyone's arm to buy a Propex.... |
Ok. |
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FNGRUVN
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2007
Posts: 2237
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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There's a well documented install for the Espar heater in the bay window forum. I got to see it in action. Nice install and seemed to work good. I still think propane is the way to go, though. Clean burning and you don't have to worry about waking up dead.  |
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Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:29 am Post subject: |
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here is a Mr. Heater Buddy
it smells really really bad of propane gas when in use in the van. Unless you open a window or two.. NOT recommended
here is a Coleman Catalytic heater,
it does NOT smell awful like a Heater Buddy, which is not a Catalytic heater.
You WANT a catalytic heater, NOT a unit with a flame on a ceramic grille.
As far as using a propex heater with the top up, be prepared for it to run constantly if temps outside are more than 30 degrees lower than your target temp inside.
As a matter of fact, even with the top down and the windows insulated, a propex will run all night if you let it, when outside temps are below 30F.. better to invest in a down comforter, and turn the propex off while sleeping (its much quieter that way, and saves propane for when you are awake...
Conclusion, there is NO alternative to a Propex with as much heat output that has its own dedicated air path both in and out.
A heater buddy is imvho, the absolute Worst alternative. A catalytic heater is the best alternative, but neither have a thermostat like a propex does.. |
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Rodknock
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 516
Location: Boulder CO
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| I've been using the Propex for a couple of years now and it works fine and I saw no other "furnace" alternative that was compact and easy on current draw for the fan. Years ago slept in my '71 bus with a Coleman catalytic heater (propane) and not only did it put out a lot of condensation, but if the bottle of propane gets cold enough the thing will go out. The Propex install was a chore, and I had some high altitude flame stability issues that Karl helped me out with, works fine now. I can camp for about 5 days with fridge and stove and Propex running. My 44 amp-hr auxillary battery is <50% after two cold nights running the Propex (30 degrees F or less), so you have to move or run the van or charge the battery (I'll probably spring for a solar charger at some point). I got a GoWesty rain fly and this keeps the interior of the van at least 10 degrees warmer with the pop top up on a cold night. The Propex is a luxury, but we like to camp in early spring and late fall to avoid the throngs of people that have invaded the wonderful state of CO, so it is worth it for me. The alternative is really a 10 degree down mummy sleeping bag, and maybe running the Coleman at night BEFORE going to sleep and shutting it off at bedtime. Wake up and start the coffee on the stove and the van warms up very quickly. |
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aswah
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2007
Posts: 907
Location: PDX
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:03 am Post subject: propex |
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Lisa and I bought a propex heater and LOVE it. We camp year round in the northern woods and like to stay warm. We mostly use it in the am before making an espresso and during the day... the night time is for -20 sleeping bags...
aswah, lucy and lisa...
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jackbombay
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2007
Posts: 2723
Location: Eastern Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: |
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The espar and webasto air heaters can be had for ~$800 off ebay if you keep an eye out for them. In more urban areas it can be quite a hassle to get the propane tank filled, where I can fill my diesel tank at most any gas station and do so regularly anyway so I wouldn't have to change my "routine" at all for heat. I've never searched for the gasser espar so I don't know how often they come up on ebay, but he diesel ones go for as low as $450 used.
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westyventures
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2306
Location: Oregon Outback
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
As far as using a propex heater with the top up, be prepared for it to run constantly if temps outside are more than 30 degrees lower than your target temp inside.
As a matter of fact, even with the top down and the windows insulated, a propex will run all night if you let it, when outside temps are below 30F.. better to invest in a down comforter, and turn the propex off while sleeping (its much quieter that way, and saves propane for when you are awake...
Conclusion, there is NO alternative to a Propex with as much heat output that has its own dedicated air path both in and out.
A heater buddy is imvho, the absolute Worst alternative. A catalytic heater is the best alternative, but neither have a thermostat like a propex does.. |
Jon, Jon, Jon. Once again you post results that disagree with other experiences. Some day I will make it out west again and see what the heck is going on. A Propex 2000 will keep the van toasty [65 degrees+ F), cycling on/off at temps down to 15~20 F with no window insulation, top down. Below that temperature window/floor/ceiling insulation will enable this 6500-btu unit to keep up well below zero degrees. Cycling on/off. The reason I am so adamant about this is because I've personally tested it. IF the top is up, yes, almost ALL the heat will escape through the canvas. If you intend to camp below 40-50 degrees top-up then you will need a tight-fitting insulation setup for the canvas. The more insulation the better, just like a house--if you cut a hole in the roof the heat goes right out, and there should be no 'leaks' in the insulation.
The Espar is still a great alternative, if one has the extra cash or can locate a reasonable used unit. These work on a slightly different principle, running all the time but varying the fan speed and heat output to maintain temperature. |
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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Which units can be used while driving?
My "evil" rear heater is removed, and the kids complain from time to time while driving.
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