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Delay 6 wire Wiper switch Wiring 1973 211 955 501 C
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Buckwit
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:38 am    Post subject: Delay 6 wire Wiper switch Wiring 1973 211 955 501 C Reply with quote

Ok let me get to grips with this issue, I have searched the Samba and have not found any results for this specific question.

Here goes I have a 73 bus and I have 2 spare wires coming off my wiper stem.

All the diagrams I see show 4 wires and I have those but I have 6 coming out of mine.

the ones I am suckered with are the Brown and the brown/white, any idea where they go?

The brown is number 31 on the switch so Earth right like the rest of the bus, the brown and white comes from a S1 pin on the switch.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just checked all the wire schematics for '73 to '76 on vintagebus.com and none of them show a brown/white stripe wire...

Yes Brown/31 is ground.
The brown/white stripe wire is normally a toggled ground. This is commonly used for example in the turn signal switch for toggling HI/LO beam relay.

Does your wiper "stem" have the ability to pull inward for some function?

If you set your multimeter for continuity testing and then placed one probe on the ground wire (31) and the other probe on the brown/white stripe wire and then (with your 3rd hand Laughing ) pulled the wiper stem it will most likely cause your meter to register continuity momentarily (as long as you hold the stem inward).

Sorry I don't have more for ya.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if that is for those optional headlight washers Nigel speaks of.
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Buckwit
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys mine does pull towards the driver, it has 1 position up, middle off and one down, and pulls up.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mine is the same as this one in every detail including the part number.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=619382
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:35 am    Post subject: 1973 VW Type 2, wiper switch, six-cable connections? Reply with quote

Buckwit wrote:
mine is the same as this one in every detail including the part number.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=619382


Contrary to what Hazetguy stated in his advertisement, I would not expect the 1973~74 VW Type 2, steering-column-mounted, windscreen wiper & washer switch, to have a black/white wire (i.e. wiring colour for left-hand direction indicator and intra-duct ventilation booster fans), but he might simply have mistaken the grey of the black/grey wire, as being a dirty or stained white!

Hence, from the above link to the Classified Advertisement, on The Samba website, for the 1973~74 VW Type 2, steering-column-mounted, windscreen wiper & washer switch (VW part No. 211 955 501 C), which you say is identical to your own, I deduce that your six wiring colours are as follows:

green
black
black/grey (rather than black/white)
black/yellow

brown
brown/white

The steering-column-mounted, windscreen wiper & washer switch (VW part No. 211 955 517 A) of both my 1973 VW 1600 Type 2 Kombi based, Westfalia Continental campervan and former 1974 VW 1800 Type 2 Panel Van which I broke for spares, have just four wiring colours as follows, which are consistent with the electrical circuit wiring diagram, for the 1973~75 VW Type 2, featured in the ubiquitous Robert Bentley Service Manual.

green
black
black/grey
black/yellow

A few years ago, I learned from the type2.com forum, that the 1974 VW Type 2, combination steering-column mounted switch for windscreen wipers and electrically-pumped windscreen washers & headlamp washers, bears VW part No. 211 955 501 D, but I do not know what wiring colours the switch features, in addition to the usual four of green, black, black/grey & black/yellow; details of this being absent from both my Haynes and Robert Bentley manuals.

Nearly 10 years ago, I came across a member's technical tip (Ken Holmes, Transporter Talk, Issue 37, Pages October 1998, pages 33~34), in the bi-monthly magazine of the British, Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club, which implied that what is probably the 1975~79 VW Type 2, combination steering-column mounted switch for windscreen wipers and electrically-pumped windscreen washers & headlamp washers, bears VW part No. 211 955 501 C. I have yet to obtain confirmation about either of these, from anyone who has a Swedish specification, 1974 or 1975~79 VW Type 2 with factory-fitted headlamp washers.

It is possible, although by no means certain, that your steering-column-mounted, windscreen wiper & washer switch (VW part No. 211 955 501 C), is associated with intermittent wiper & wash/wipe facility, which is mentioned in my official 1973 VW Type 2 Owner's Handbook and might reasonably have been a standard feature of the Deluxe Microbus models. This facility, is also reputed to be a standard feature of the 1979 VW Type 2 "Champagne Edition" models, for which the electrical circuit is probably identical.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


As a first step to determining whether this is what you have, I would suggest checking the relay mounting strip beneath your fuse box, to see whether there is a intermittent wiper-delay relay (probably VW part No. 111 955 531), in addition to the 5-terminal headlamp dip & flasher relay and the 3 or 4-terminal direction-indicator flasher relay.

One DIY workshop manual (J.H. Haynes & D.H. Stead, VW 1300 & 1500 Beetle 1965~1975, Owners' Workshop Manual, Haynes Publishing, ISBN 0-85-696-494-8, pages 196~197) features a supplementary current-flow diagram, for the 1974 onward, VW 1300 Type 1 Beetle, showing a wiper-delay relay, with terminals labelled 15, 31, 53m, 53s & S. The corresponding windscreen-wiper switch, with switch-selector positions labelled J, 0, 1, 2 & 3, has terminals labelled 53, 53a, 53b, 53e & S, plus an unlabelled Earth (i.e. Ground, in USA parlance!) connection. In addition to the unlabelled connection from the switch to Earth, the diagram shows the following wiring colours connected to the switch:

black - terminal-53
green - terminal-53e
black/grey - terminal-53a
black/yellow - terminal-53b

black/brown - from switch terminal-S to relay terminal-S
unspecified-colour - Earth

Another electrical circuit wiring diagram, for the VW 1300/1302 Type 1 Beetle 'Stickshift' models, for August 1971 onward, copied from an unspecified source, indicates a similar circuit configuration for the wiper switch, but it is ambiguous as to whether the brown Earth wire connection in the vicinity of the switch, is actually associated with the wiper switch, or an adjacent component, mounted on the steering column. Including the ambiguous brown Earth wire, the diagram shows the following wiring colours connected to the switch:

black - terminal-53
green - terminal-53e
black/grey - terminal-53a
black/yellow - terminal-53b

brown/white - from switch terminal-S to relay terminal-S
brown - ambiguous Earth connection


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Circuit wiring diagram of intermittent wiper circuit

Judging from the information derived from The Samba Internet forums, for the 1968~79 VW Type 2 and other models, this wiper-delay relay (VW/Audi part No. 111 955 531) was a part of the factory-fitted, intermittent wiper option and this relay or its equivalents, with identical terminal labels (e.g. VW-Audi part No. 477 955 531A), were used for several VW models and new replacement units are still readily available, from various suppliers.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3165217#3165217

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Shown above are some pictures, of the blade-terminal configurations and the relay internals, of the wiper-delay relay (VW/Audi part No. 111 955 531). Notice that the size and locations of the blade-terminals, are identical to that of a conventional five-terminal, accessory relay.

Intermittent wiper relay : terminals S, 15, 53S, 53M & 31 - VW/Audi part No. 111 955 531
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nigel, a lot of people here seem to bust your ass for being long winded etc, but you really are a wealth of info and are always pretty dam helpful Applause
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say Nigel is the best, his answers are complete and tackle the question fro so many different directions that he covers all the bases.#

Nigel Rules
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Saga continues I am afraid.

No relay in the fusebox and when I earth out the brown wire 31 on the switch the horn goes off Shocked
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:23 am    Post subject: 1973 VW Type 2, wiper switch, six-cable connections? Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
nigel, a lot of people here seem to bust your ass for being long winded etc, but you really are a wealth of info and are always pretty damn helpful Applause


Buckwit wrote:
I have to say Nigel is the best, his answers are complete and tackle the question fro so many different directions that he covers all the bases.#

Nigel Rules



Buckwit wrote:
The Saga continues I am afraid.

No relay in the fusebox and when I earth out the brown wire 31 on the switch the horn goes off Shocked


It's always nice to be appreciated! Smile

Although there seems to currently be insufficient information to positively identify the additional functions of your wiper & washer switch, we can potentially make a litlle more progress, by first disconnecting the switch from the vehicle's electrical system and then performing continuity checks between the six different wires (i.e. green, black, black/grey, black/yellow, brown & brown/white), for each of the switch-lever operating positions:

position-0
position-0 plus washer

position-1
position-1 plus washer

position-2
position-2 plus washer

and if applicable (note that there might be a latent facility for this, which requires the removal of a white nylon stop peg from the switch

position-3
position-3 plus washer

This potentially means performing a total of 60 different continuity tests, to completely define the operational characteristics of the switch.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I bought a NOS wiper arm and again it has the same 6 wires coming out of it, and the water hoses for the washer.

After using the 4 wires that would be normally used in the wiring diagram I tested the othe 2 cables the brown goes live when i pull the lever towards the driver, this is the S terminal on the switch unit, but the brown and white still confuses me.

then again so does the brown unless it is for a wiper on while washing move.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 VW Type 2, wiper switch, six-cable connections? Reply with quote

NASkeet wrote:

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Nigel, I'm trying to get my intermittant wipers working again ('78 Champagne Edition, they used to work...) and was directed to your info in this thread.

In the picture, it appears that 53M doesn't connect to anything.

I have several wiper relays that have all those positions, except that 53M has a spade that connects to the relay panel too.

Can you confirm that your relay doesn't have the spade? Maybe I'll clip it off on one of them and see what happens.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Wiper Wiring Reply with quote

i've just picked up a NOS wiper switch for my '73 model year westy, which has 211 955 501 C & LS201111 part numbers on it, along with VW SWF markings.

Similar to the comments above, it has the expected 4 wires for the wiper motor (black, black/yellow stripe, green, black/grey stripe) and the additional brown (S1) and brown/white stripe (31).

I'm trying to get to grips with the wiring on this. I have continuity with black/grey stripe and brown, when i pull the lever towards the driver, same action to activate wash. My thinking is this is for an electric wash pump.

It also has the removable white nylon peg @naskeet mentions, which gives me an additional position on the lever (-1 from park, so it has -1, park, +1, +2).

I'm confused with the fact i have no continuity changes (no new continuity) when i move the lever into -1(i have continuity in -1 and park with black and green). I'd hoped this was an intermittent wipe position, but can't figure it out. I've referred to the wiring diagrams at https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6682642

Anyone help? Am i right that the S1 brown is for an electric wash pump function (lever action is the same as wash function, and its spring loaded so would be weird to have an intermittent position that requires you to hold it in place)? Apart from a relay and associated wiring, is more needed to make my switch work, with the white nylon peg removed, and what continuity should i see in this -1 position. (i'm describing it as -1 as it is down from park, versus up from park for slow (+1) and fast( +2) positions.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Wiper Wiring Reply with quote

read this thread and see if it matches, especially the wiring and comments on page 2 by TCash.

switch for
pump fur Scheinwerfer-Reiningungsanlage
pump for headlamp cleaning system


https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Wiper Wiring Reply with quote

-J = S1 Brown disconnects from the Switch grnd. Closing the contacts in #1 Relay J31, connecting 15 to 31. 15 to 31 switches #2 relay from 53S to 15 momentarily.
In the "J" position there should be a break in ground between S1 and the Switch ground.

-0 = 53e grn to 53 blk Park
-T = 1/2 way between 0-n-one
-One = 53a Blk/gy to 53 blk Low speed

-Two = 53a Blk/gy to 53b Blk/y High speed

Wiper Delay Diagram
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:08 am    Post subject: Re: Wiper Wiring Reply with quote

thanks tcash, your comments help.

i have continuity black/grey with brown S when i pull up the switch to wash position (which also breaks the ground brown with brown/white). The S will be live when i pull up to wash position. Does the relay do something else when it sees live from S, or is there a further wiring diagram (i have seen this one though but i don't think its applicable https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/baybus_1974up_headlight_washer.jpg

I'd hoped this switch would give me both intermittent and electric wash. If thats not possible i'll stick the nylon peg back in and use the live S to run an electric wash pump through a relay....
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Wiper Wiring Reply with quote

Does the relay do something else when it sees live from "S"?
I don't know. It would send power up the negative side of the Delay relay.

As you said when you pull up on the wiper lever.
S1 switches from 31 to 53a. Sending power to the relay.
Now the relay has power on both sides. I don't get this?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


In the 'J" position S1 should disconnect form 31.
It is not doing that you said.

Without that functioning, I don't know how you would use it with the delay relay.
You could use the S1 wire to power a windshield washer pump. Pull up on the lever and the washer pump would come on.

Telford should be along. He will be able to make sense out of it.
The relay is posted about half way up on this page.

Good luck
Tcash
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: Wiper Wiring Reply with quote

thanks tcash, yeah thats the current path i figured was happening. You can see the little black jumper wire on the top of the my photo, which is marked "4" on the switch btw, thats responsible for connecting to the strip that runs from S inside the switch.

and yes - pulling the switch to J DOES break the ground (or the continuity between 31 & S). The same strip that runs from S inside the switch and connects to 4 when you pull up is connected to 31 when released.

I'd love to figure this out, or more specifically the relay(s) and wiring to make it work for both functions (electric wash pump & intermittent)
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:27 pm    Post subject: Windshield Wiper Switch 5 position Reply with quote

This Delay wiper diagram
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+ This Headlight washer diagram
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= This topaz Intermediate wiper and a Headlight washer
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Delay 6 wire Wiper switch Wiring 1973 211 955 501 C Reply with quote

As you said when you pull up on the wiper lever.
S1 switches from 31 to 53a. Sending power to the relay.
Now the relay has power on both sides. I don't get this?

According to this diagram.
Pull up on the wiper arm = wiper swipe 2/3 strokes.
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