Other ways of dating a BD?

Lowdown Dirty Rat · Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: Other ways of dating a BD?

I’m sure this is a resounding NO!
but is there any way of accurately dating to lets say, within a month or so, a barndoor that’s missing its chassis number, vin tags and number plate?
Could we use part numbers for example?
or carbon date the welding Wink

Its just I know of a few old barndoors not unlike the boat-top one recently found in Sweden. If they could be aged more accurately it would be incredibly useful, because some countries like Sweden have a detailed record history of all the barndoors imported. So a reasonably accurate date could lead to the chassis number.

49barndoor · Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject:

Maybe the cab doortops are dated Question

EverettB · Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:33 pm Post subject:

Didn't I read on here that the sunroof assembly is date-coded? For Deluxes this could help get you closer to the production date.

A lot of electrical parts are date-coded but if you just have a roof, that doesn't help much.
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bubba · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:20 am Post subject:

I think that the door~tops just tell the last 3 digits of the vin number. Along with a few parts on the bus. I think that the speedo and the roof~ mech are the only things that tell a date.

52panelvan · Samba Member Joined: June 07, 2006 Posts: 350

Interesting Q.

Some very early speedo pods have the full chassis number on them - stamped at the rear of the pod, im sure i have seen a couple that have although most 50/51 have only the last 3 digits.
Memory may be serving me wrong but i thought very very early doors may have the full chassis number on them but it may only be the last 3 digits.

Is it probable that vw realised that they would never have the last made van with that same last 3 chassis number on it as it would be 1000 vans back in the factory at the same time so moved from whole vins to last 3 vin numbers?

Eitherway ...

As far as the Swedish (Cut body in half) Boat Samba's go in the other thread-

IF the door tops on 53-55 are last 3 digit vin stamped (i dont know if they are the same as early ones?) and if you only had the last 3 digits it may be possible. - Big very very unlikely slim possiblity at that.

Right so 118226 barndoors made - say you have the last 3 digits- That means odds of 118/1 have the same last 3 chassis numbers given they exported them everywhere and you are looking in one place that gives you good odds i recon straight off.

Given body details, detail stuff you may be able to give it an approx year.

The records exist, and depending on region and from my understanding some are now computerised, IF you can search on part chassis numbers and if it was still within the region its original number plate was - you should be lucky and hit on that one seeing as there is a very low chance of several Bd with the same last 3 digits and same body type (eg Samba, panelvan etc) being imported in to Sweden in one year.

If not you could search all 118 variations - if you could find someone with time in the records office(shame i dont work in sweden:-) and then look for one that existed, and then one that existed in its found region.
The biggest problem being that i dont think all the records from all the regions are computerised (may be in a few years Question

).

If several of the same last 3 number vins did come up for one region or even at all which is very unlikely, you may be able to pin it down to the exact one as follows.

If it had the bakelite dashpod with the original ignition lock, or may be the original drivers door lock - the Actual Vw import documents for the company that imported it to Sweden also have other details on the VW side of the paperwork such as the key numbers for both items. Therefor e you would know exactly. Laying your hands on that document is the harder part but i do have it for my 52 so it is possible.

I reserve the right for my maths to be way off Smile

and the above scenario relies on alot of If's and Buts so overall doubtfull.

Cheers

Mark

hazetguy · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:32 am Post subject:

the front axle beam number might help date it.
if it had the original transaxle, the number on that might help too.
steering boxes are usually date stamped with month and year.
if it had the original engine (unusual, but possible) and the parts on it were very original, the clutch disc and pressure plate are often dated, i think the distributor housing is date stamped too. then again, you could go by the engine number.....
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49barndoor · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:45 am Post subject:

RockStock · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:55 am Post subject:

hazetguy · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:15 am Post subject:

streetwagens · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:26 am Post subject:

Original door tops on 53-5 have the last 3 digits stamped in the door tops. For example, if it was the top half of my '53 that was found, I would have 20 - xxx 631, and would know it as a '53 for example. According to Tonny's list, first '53 was 20-042, last '53 was 20-070, so that means that there are only 28 possible combinations of chassis numbers that my bus could be without any further dated parts.
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52panelvan · Samba Member Joined: June 07, 2006 Posts: 350

Hey Dai, you in on my bad maths corse Laughing

Yeh but dont forget you would have to KNOW it was a 53, im working on no other info being involved - incase you didnt know it was.

Actually my previous odds would shorten alot to less than 100/1 if you factor in 51/ 52 piano hinge and the later type and they didnt start making Samba's till 51.
If you found a Samba cut in half boat with piano hinge door tops , with a pair of matching last 3 vin numbers on those frames in northern Sweden (computerised records) that would give you slightly less than 30/1 across the whole world and across all the different body types and you would be almost be guarenteed a correct result first time and you would know the Samba Vin. - if you could search for it on there systems.
Even still a friendly contact could probably run that many Smile

- all but one i dont doubt would come back as not even on the Swedish system Wink

streetwagens · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:42 am Post subject:

I love creative maths!!! Laughing

So, what we are saying it that the boat top was built on April 1st 1954 then!!! Wink

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bubba · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:15 am Post subject:

I think he is looking for the date of the bus, not the vin numbers.

streetwagens · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:22 am Post subject:

Unless the debate is about if it is possible to 'rebuild' something like the boat bus? Wink

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barnjunkie · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:14 am Post subject:

streetwagens · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:56 am Post subject:

Would there be any date stampings on the semaphores? Havent got any th hand at the mo! Laughing

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Anchovy · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject:

Given the condition of the bus, I think carbon dating is your best bet.

jasonvw · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject:

Jeff, come on man, when dating a bus like this, you first want to pour wine all over it and get it in the mood....
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streetwagens · Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:09 am Post subject:

Okay, given that deep skylight chassis numbers start from 20-049xxx and the last barndoor was 20-117xxx, it stands to reason that any shallow skylight lip deluxe was built between these numbers. If the last 3 digits are available from the door tops etc, that restricts the possibilities to 68 options if no other information is available. If further dating info is around, then this can be narrowed down even further. 68 letters from Volkswagen would add up to quite a sum to find out what the bus actually was though!! Laughing

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Scotty · Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:33 am Post subject:

Didn't the numbers on the door tops change from chassis number to body number when they were introduced? My 52 doesn't have a body number so it has the chassis number on the door tops
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