| Author |
Message |
Stuartzickefoose
Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008
Posts: 10350
Location: SoCal for now...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
 Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:10 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| borninabus wrote: |
| you need to call someone out west who does buggies. limited slip is not that uncommon. you need to do some thinking about it though. i'm no tranny expert, but apparently, if you do the wrong thing with the gas pedal during cornering (on asphalt) you can easily roll your bus. the haynes manual has the best description of how the factory limited slip works. |
I drove a CJ7 for years. With 4wd you normally have 2, 3 or 4 wd depending on whether you have 0, 1 or 2 limited slip differential(s). With 0 you are driving off one wheel in the front and one in the back. With 1 you are driving with one wheel, usually in the front, and two in the back. And with 2 you are driving with all four wheels. The problem with 2 comes in steep conditions like on a hill or sand dune when you stall out climbing. With three wheels spinning you have an anchor of one tire to steer with backing down. With all four spinning you are a hockey puck headed down hill. The same is true climbing on ice.
All I can say is that buses do lay over and driving with a limited slip on snow and ice or a slippery slope can get one into trouble. Be sure to read up on using 4wd before getting too confident with your skills.
A cheap alternative is to simply run chains on grass and soft dirt, or lower your air pressure way down. Be sure to clean it up afterwards cause mud can cause rust when left. The other question is what type LSD to run and a clutch pack is generally softer and more forgiving however it does require more maintenance than something like a locker. If you plan to do some off-roading you might consider looking for a vanagon syncro instead as even a LSD will not work as well as having the ability to transfer power to the front wheels. Even with a LSD you are pushing both front wheels, especially in soft terrain.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lionhart94010
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2005
Posts: 1417
Location: SF Bay Area / Silicon Valley / So Cal
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Limited slip / locking differential? |
|
|
Thinking about getting one :0)
Finally, a Posi-Traction Differential for Bus & Vanagon!
A posi-traction differential, also known as ATB (automatic torque biasing), is a simple and effective way to greatly increase your traction on and off-road. Unlike an "open" differential (i.e., your stock unit) that shifts power to the wheel with the least traction, an ATB senses which wheel has the better grip and biases power to that wheel. It does this smoothly and constantly without ever completely removing power from the other wheel. This is especially important when the drive wheels are on slippery surfaces such as ice, snow, dirt, sand, or mud. To learn more about differentials, please read this article.
These units are made right here in the USA by Peloquins®. These bad-boys employ a proprietary radiused planetary gear design for strength, durability and smooth operation. This unique design is unlike anything else found in the world and reflects a new benchmark in differential engineering. If you have ever wanted your 2WD or 4WD Syncro (with or without the factory diff-lock) to have more off-road prowess, this differential is for you. And, if you purchase this part at the same time as one of our rebuilt transaxles, we will install the posi-traction unit prior to shipping at no extra charge!
Part #: GVW-POSI
Works With: 1968-91
PRICE RANGE: $1399.95 - $1499.95
https://www.gowesty.com/product/automatic/3897/positraction-differential-
_________________
Current VWs 71 T2 Westy SO-72/6(Miami), 71 Crew Cab, 2015 GSW TDI
Other owned VW’s 59, 68 1500s, 69 & 71 Bug’s; 72 & 73 S-Bug’s; 67 Westy, 67 Deluxe, Other 71 DC, 72 KG GT that now lives in Australia, 12 JSW TDI, 2015 GSW TDI, 2023 Tiguan
VW technical information sights
thesamba - www.ratwell.com - www.shoptalkforums.com/ - www.vw-resource.com - http://www.type2.com/
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/ - www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: Limited slip / locking differential? |
|
|
ever had a limited slip on ice or snow? They work really great as long as one or both tires have traction but if both tires slip the rear end will be like a hockey puck on ice. It takes a different type driving skill with a limited slip than without it. Having one rear tire as a anchor on snow isn't all that bad. If it takes two wheels driving the bus to move it, probably shouldn't be driving more than 5 -10 miles per hour anyway.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bleyseng
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005
Posts: 4752
Location: Seattle
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: Limited slip / locking differential? |
|
|
Well I have had LSD in my bus since 2008 as so far its great!
_________________
70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Limited slip / locking differential? |
|
|
| Bleyseng wrote: |
| Well I have had LSD in my bus since 2008 as so far its great! |
wait until you get on packed snow on a sloped grade and both rears give up the traction at the same exact moment. You know how people used to say Corvettes are too much power for someone and they wrecked it by spinning it? That was the LSD. I had one in my CJ7 for 400,000 miles. It just takes a different style of driving on slippery surfaces, that's all. But when it comes loose you WILL be looking from where you came. Hit some diesel and water on a freeway onramp that is uphill while you are accelerating... . weeeeeeeeeeeeee, Look ma I can see what used to be in my rear view mirror.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
otiswesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 1731
Location: Portland
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Limited slip / locking differential? |
|
|
I have the Peloquin "LSD" in my 78. It is pretty amazing. I also run studded winter tires (in the winter) and the bus is as good or better than any modern AWD car with regular tires on packed snow and ice. Absolute game changer.
Haven't noticed issues in the summer with scrubbing or cornering, but i don't drive that aggressively.
_________________
1978 Sage Green P22 Westfalia
1989 T3 Syncro Single cab
Just a regular guy |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Limited slip / locking differential? |
|
|
it is all a matter of how good a driver you are. Unless you have has a limited slip come loose on ice and do an instant end swap, you won't even have a clue it is coming. 4WD has the advantage that the front tires can still pull the car to help straighten it out if the front still has a standard differential. A bus can't pull itself out but the front tires are still anchors if the rear comes loose. A limited slip will get you out of some situations that a standard differential will not, but it is also a double edged sword. This assumes you have a clutch type limited slip and not a locker.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
metahacker
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2010
Posts: 692
Location: san.diego
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Limited slip / locking differential? |
|
|
for VW there's the Peloquin which is basically a Quaife ... the auto torque biasing diff design ...
and there is also the ZF which is a clutch pack type design, and was OE for VW ... the latter is still available if you know where to look (there might be a certain tranny builder in the PNW that still has them readily available:) )
they are both great the clutch diff is more 'chattery' (which can be helped with Lubegard's synthetic sperm whale oil clutch pack LSD additive) ... the ATB is smoother .. but the clutch pack will be much better in severe traction limited situations (like SGKent's worst case scenario) ... they are both great and will help you a lot when off road or in the snow .. you will find that you won't really need 4WD in a lightweight LSD car with the motor over the driven wheels ...
the difference between open and limited slip diff is pretty dramatic ... i always remember pulling my FWD Civic into my garage to put it on the lift .. and getting stuck in the gravel driveway going down hill .. it was so pathetic .. and then when i finally got it unstuck and into the garage, i put an engine / tranny swap in with a LSD .. and then pulling right back out of the same driveway - saying to myself - OMG is this the same car??? the LSD was huge .. it was literally night and day...it went from being really difficult to drive in that scenario, to being impossible to get stuck.....(my single cab was terrible on the driveway too, thought many times about the Peloquin for that) ... with snow tires that LSD Civic was as good as my Audi with AWD in the snow ... being light helps a lot ...
I'd roll a LSD Bus pretty much anywhere with confidence .. i've seen them do situations that would be PITA in an open diff car without any effort at all
people might tell u ' u dont need it ' its a waste blah blah blah ... it's a capability that you will never regret having if you do any driving at all in adverse or off-road conditions ... a cruiser in southern california might not ever need it, sure ... but if you take that thing off the pavement, or hit mud/snow .... you will be a rock star in conditions that would make u Mr spinny-1-wheel
the couple on the Kombi Life youtube docu video runs a ATB ... and they were in the UK in some off road muddy wet grass for a couple sequences ..where you can clearly see the bus should be a bear to pull back onto the street, and it was totally effortless ...
and well yeah losing traction on BOTH rear wheels is a bad time. brake proportioning valves always grossly favor the front wheels for this reason .. you will definitely swap ends ... but it's not something that will "just happen" .. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KrisBalfe
Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2004
Posts: 832
Location: SLC
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Limited slip / locking differential? |
|
|
| metahacker wrote: |
for VW there's the Peloquin which is basically a Quaife ... the auto torque biasing diff design ...
and there is also the ZF which is a clutch pack type design, and was OE for VW ... the latter is still available if you know where to look (there might be a certain tranny builder in the PNW that still has them readily available:) )
they are both great the clutch diff is more 'chattery' (which can be helped with Lubegard's synthetic sperm whale oil clutch pack LSD additive) ... the ATB is smoother .. but the clutch pack will be much better in severe traction limited situations (like SGKent's worst case scenario) ... they are both great and will help you a lot when off road or in the snow .. you will find that you won't really need 4WD in a lightweight LSD car with the motor over the driven wheels ...
the difference between open and limited slip diff is pretty dramatic ... i always remember pulling my FWD Civic into my garage to put it on the lift .. and getting stuck in the gravel driveway going down hill .. it was so pathetic .. and then when i finally got it unstuck and into the garage, i put an engine / tranny swap in with a LSD .. and then pulling right back out of the same driveway - saying to myself - OMG is this the same car??? the LSD was huge .. it was literally night and day...it went from being really difficult to drive in that scenario, to being impossible to get stuck.....(my single cab was terrible on the driveway too, thought many times about the Peloquin for that) ... with snow tires that LSD Civic was as good as my Audi with AWD in the snow ... being light helps a lot ...
I'd roll a LSD Bus pretty much anywhere with confidence .. i've seen them do situations that would be PITA in an open diff car without any effort at all
people might tell u ' u dont need it ' its a waste blah blah blah ... it's a capability that you will never regret having if you do any driving at all in adverse or off-road conditions ... a cruiser in southern california might not ever need it, sure ... but if you take that thing off the pavement, or hit mud/snow .... you will be a rock star in conditions that would make u Mr spinny-1-wheel
the couple on the Kombi Life youtube docu video runs a ATB ... and they were in the UK in some off road muddy wet grass for a couple sequences ..where you can clearly see the bus should be a bear to pull back onto the street, and it was totally effortless ...
and well yeah losing traction on BOTH rear wheels is a bad time. brake proportioning valves always grossly favor the front wheels for this reason .. you will definitely swap ends ... but it's not something that will "just happen" .. |
Yep, all of that. If I didn’t have AWD and a locking diff in my bus I’d definitely roll the dice on one of those ATB diffs. The bus is a very capable vehicle with one wheel drive, each additional wheel just gets better and better. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
otiswesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 1731
Location: Portland
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: Limited slip / locking differential? |
|
|
I have the Peloquin LSD in my 78 Bus. It was installed by German Transaxle in Bend. You can call them and find out if they can do it for your 72 bus as well.
It is an awesome upgrade.
_________________
1978 Sage Green P22 Westfalia
1989 T3 Syncro Single cab
Just a regular guy |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ron miche
Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2014
Posts: 39
Location: Peer (Belgium)
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Limited slip / locking differential? |
|
|
| I have bought a ambulance t2a from 1968 with original a LSD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Shonandb
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2019
Posts: 1196
Location: Vancouver, BC
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Limited slip / locking differential? |
|
|
| metahacker wrote: |
and well yeah losing traction on BOTH rear wheels is a bad time. brake proportioning valves always grossly favor the front wheels for this reason .. you will definitely swap ends ... but it's not something that will "just happen" .. |
Yeh, no LSD in either of my Buses but I learned to drive in the snow and ice growing up between the Great Lakes in Ont. and was always able to keep the Bus on the road but lost it once driving in 1" of water over sandy-clay while visiting Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine in Quebec for a Windsurfing competition back in the early 90s.
Let my buddy drive as I was riding in the passenger seat (73 Panel loaded with gear inside and on the roof) repairing some equipment in prep for a race that was about to start (we were running late) when the back end started fishtailing.
We were only doing about 25 mph but the back end started to float and I said push in the clutch in hopes the wheels would stop spinning/get traction but it was too late as the back end came around. Thought we would just slide to a nice stop facing the other way but the rear wheel dug in and in slow motion, we flipped onto the drivers side and stopped.
We crawled out the passenger door and assessed the situation and initially panicked but when another competitor who was also running late stopped by we connected a rope to the jack point and with 3 of us lifting and the guy in the car backing away pulling with the rope, we got her back up on 4 wheels.
Some cosmetic damage but as it was soft sand/clay, hardly noticeable. Pulled the spark plugs to make sure that there was no oil in the cylinders, added a half quart of oil as some had leaked out, and started her right back up. Ended up having torn engine mounts that I replaced when I got back home but okay otherwise.
In hindsight, in that situation, my buddy should have geared down to 1st and floored it to keep the wheels spinning as they wouldn't have dug in. Another life lesson learned through driving an old VW Bus.
_________________
*******************************
76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
Click to view image |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Limited slip / locking differential? |
|
|
I learn lots of life lessons in my bus without LSD. Thanks for sharing.
Robbie
_________________
Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Limited slip / locking differential? |
|
|
| Bleyseng wrote: |
| Well I have had LSD in my bus since 2008 as so far its great! |
I spilled mine on a bad trip but was able to blot it up
_________________
.ssS! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Limited slip / locking differential? |
|
|
| Abscate wrote: |
| Bleyseng wrote: |
| Well I have had LSD in my bus since 2008 as so far its great! |
I spilled mine on a bad trip but was able to blot it up |
Frankly we are not sure you ever came down. Your real name isn't Peter is it?
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
metahacker
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2010
Posts: 692
Location: san.diego
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: Limited slip / locking differential? |
|
|
there's a new LSD on the scene for Buses
https://ranchotransaxles.com/new-gt-091-tbd/
from GT aka Guard Transmission .. the same guys who make billet chromoly LSDs for 911s, if that tells you anything.
i thought we were lucky to have the Peloquin ATB diff (which looks reaaally nice)
the Bus GT diff seems to be new enough that they haven't made it to the GT web site yet.... at least as of Q3 2022
here's GT's site / page on their ATBs:
https://www.guardtransmissionllc.com/products/tourque-biasing-differentials/
some guy did a pretty OCD teardown/comparison against a Quaife
https://www.planet-9.com/threads/quaife-and-guard-atb-tbd-differential-comparison.250751/
i've heard that GT has spoken critically of the Quaife..and Quaife ATBs are known to be pretty much bulletproof..(to the point that Quaife will replace one if you manage to break it)
To me, that says a lot about how high they are setting their standards. Their product looks like it would "walk the walk," too.
It's very cool that they have decided to bless the Bus 091/002 transmissions with a unit. Nice to have those sorts of options for scenarios beyond a stock Bus on paved roads. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2022 1:49 am Post subject: Re: Limited slip / locking differential? |
|
|
You have to wait until March for the new Peloquin, but there’s a hood movie about it.
_________________
.ssS! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sodbuster
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2004
Posts: 1086
Location: wherever my baywindow takes me.
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2022 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Limited slip / locking differential? |
|
|
Seems the aftermarket has left the 002 differential in the dust bin of history. I did my five rib some years back and installed a 002 super diff (four spider gears.) go forward to 2020 and I was doing a rebuild for my camper and considered a super diff again. This time no go. No one carries them anymore You have to upgrade to the 091 spec if you want a super diff or an LSD or ATB diff. (Though you may be able to still find LSD or ATB diff for 002, but I suspect that supply may be drying up too.) But it is not hard, just involved.
To convert your diff from 002 to 091 you need to swap out a few things besides the diff itself. It requires the 091 threaded diff retainers, 091 diff bearings, drive flanges and drive flange seals. This will all fit your 002.
So not all hope is lost.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
