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Amateur versus rusty bus
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Nor_AL_67
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:20 am    Post subject: Amateur versus rusty bus Reply with quote

Thought I would post some pics of my 63 corner repair using ww repair panel. The fit is pretty bad and I know I should have used Gerson, but I like a challenge. I'm a noob when it comes to body work/metal repair and welding....but gotta learn some how. I bought a small lincoln mig welder and started burnin. Also bought several metal cutting tools and it seems for me my fav is the dremel.

Here's what I started with. The metal structural piece under the corner was rotted pretty bad and no one makes it so I fabbed one up. PM me if you want the pattern.

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Cut the panel about an inch above the tray.

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New piece welder on.

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New ww panel has a big ole smile. It fits crappy on top but bottom seems ok.

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WW panel doesn't have the 'L' shape to fit in the channel so that had to be fabbed.

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This is where I'm at now, needs much more cleaning and grinding and will need a little filler. Anyone know if the Gerson panel has the 'L' shape built in?
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Amateur Versus Rusty Bus!


Last edited by Nor_AL_67 on Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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arthurnugen
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy smokes! Shocked Nice job!

Arthur
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Saint76
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is outstanding....

I gave up on the WW corner..Just got so frustrated trying to hold it in place..

I have the magnets now, but didn't then.. Maybe would have made life easier..

I went with the Gerson corner after and was able to line it up a lot easier..

You are a magician.. Very Happy Very Happy
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great work!!
Future note though, a must to remove rust, and zinc primer/paint in those areas exposed before adding in new sheet metal.
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57palm
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:39 pm    Post subject: priming metal Reply with quote

great work. I have done extensive metal repair to my 57 standard bus. I appreciate the time it takes fab all that stuff, great job. As far as people saying clean and prime all bare areas before welding new metal over them here is my take. For one, none of the metal already in you bus has been primed between the seams. If it was the factory spot welders would not work. For two if you have ever tried to spot, tack, plug weld around or through primer (even weld through) you would know that it does not work. The weld are messy, often don't take and have a general lack of quality. If you look at most pros. posting (eg Metal wizard) you will notice that none of these steps are taken and that is why. It is a great idea but does not work. Please people, quit telling people things you do not have first hand experience with. I followed these forums and tried a few primers. Same result, welds messed up all the hours I spend fitting the metal parts properly.

again, great job,


Reuben
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Pierre G
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: priming metal Reply with quote

57palm wrote:
As far as people saying clean and prime all bare areas before welding new metal over them here is my take. For one, none of the metal already in you bus has been primed between the seams. If it was the factory spot welders would not work. For two if you have ever tried to spot, tack, plug weld around or through primer (even weld through) you would know that it does not work. The weld are messy, often don't take and have a general lack of quality. If you look at most pros. posting (eg Metal wizard) you will notice that none of these steps are taken and that is why. It is a great idea but does not work. Please people, quit telling people things you do not have first hand experience with.
Reuben


So true. The real trick is clean/grind all rust, weld, and then wax or oil all internal parts, like inner rocker, valance, etc...to avoid rust come back.

Pierre
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Nor_AL_67
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the props guys. I appreciate all comments. You probably can't tell from the pics but I used IES self-etching weldable primer on anything exposed. My welds are so messy right now I can't tell if it made them any worse Confused

Fabbing that structural piece took the most time, but I can mirror the pattern for the other side now.

Anyone know where or if I can get a can of rattle-can turkis paint to cover the repair until it gets real paint?

Next project the right corner... will have to teach myself how to use the hammer and dolly for some of the dents. The battery tray is toast.

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gerg
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No comparison in my opinion.

I am actually cutting the WW corner out I did and putting a Gerson in place of it.

Your WW came out much better than mine. I was doing a truck though, so maybe there are some differences that may matter.

Nice work so far though!!!

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Did some of that fabbing stuff too . . . .time consuming!!!!!

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Dave24
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric&Barb&Henry wrote:
Great work!!
Future note though, a must to remove tar, rust, tar, and zinc primer/tar/paint in those areas exposed before adding in new sheet metal or tar.
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Campy
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe that W.W. is still selling the "grinning" Brazilian corner panels. I bought one about eight or nine years ago that was adveretised in their catalog to be ten inches in height. The one that I got went down to six inches in height in the middle. I cut it so it was six inches in height all of the way across.
Remember when the packing primer is removed, the metal has to be conditioned before painting.
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Reverend Jim
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought I'd chime in as I did the same job recently on a Single Cab. Sorry for the gaps in the photo time-line but suffice it to say that WW panel was a BEAR. I had to cut, beat, bend, fab, and grind the hell out of it to get it mated up. Obviously this is the pass. side w/battery tray and the whole corner was in WAY worse shape than it first appeared. whole thing is bodyworked and sealed now so i'll post a pic of that soon. Addl. seam seal in the tray area was a customer request. - Jim

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In the beginning...

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Cut out the rot...

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Traced and ground down, repaired small interior bits prior to corner/tray...

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Terrible pic but this is the interior. Put a 90' in the metal below the lowest vent instead of single-wall, for some extra strength. Can't tell from the outside.

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Ready for the body guy. Customer was really happy so I guess that's all you can ask for!
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nor_AL_67 wrote:
Thanks for the props guys. I appreciate all comments. You probably can't tell from the pics but I used IES self-etching weldable primer on anything exposed. My welds are so messy right now I can't tell if it made them any worse Confused


Good to hear you got the rust out and painted before.

Your welding skills will just get better with practise. Even messy welds will work fine though require more clean up. Just be carefull to not overheat the sheet metal too much. Doing a short weld and skipping over to another area is a must to spread the heat to prevent warping. As you probably already know!! Wink
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David Raistrick
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Wolfsburgwest Sheetmetal Corner Repair Reply with quote

Nor_AL_67 wrote:

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A note for the next time someone is in this area.....

This inner structure is not supposed to be open when the skin goes over it.

It should be completely closed (very bottom is open facing the ground), then the corner skin wraps around it:

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I know a rusted or already hacked up bus is a bit hard to tell from, so...

Nice job fitting that ill fitting corner, btw. Fitting my used corner was chore enough. Wink
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j.pickens
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Wolfsburgwest Sheetmetal Corner Repair Reply with quote

David Raistrick wrote:


It should be completely closed (very bottom is open facing the ground), then the corner skin wraps around it:



Please elaborate. I'm trying to understand this, as I have this repair in my future.
Thanks.
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Campy
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All he must mean is that the corner panel fits over the pillar; there is a gap at the bottom between the edge of the corner panel and the bottom of the pillar.
The pillar has to be clean and coated with something to protect it (before the corner panel goes over it). Use weldable primer (not SEM) on its edges where the panel will be spot welded to it.
Both of my corner panels were straight (not bent) on each side, I cut the old ones off near each edge, leaving the bent portions on the body, where I, then, trimmed the corner panels and welded them to the bent edges left on the body. Both corner panels look good, especially with the bent, overlapping edge left on the mud flap.
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rjonas
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, I used a POS WW corner on my old '59 standard too. It was before the funky green panels were available. I also formed a bend on both ends using wood forms with "C" clamps wound tight and hammered the corners over. The WW corner was not long enough to have the "splash pan" mounting holes so I salvaged the old one and welded it on. The WW corner is shaped real close but the metal was very "hammered" and not smooth. I think I spent 10-15 hours making the WW corner look like this picture. Just another reason to buy the funky green stuff = money well spent.

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Nor_AL_67
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: Wolfsburgwest Sheetmetal Corner Repair Reply with quote

David Raistrick wrote:
This inner structure is not supposed to be open when the skin goes over it.

It should be completely closed (very bottom is open facing the ground), then the corner skin wraps around it:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Thanks, great pic, I wish Gerson made that piece coming down. I spent hours searching the gallery and could never find it.
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Gerson
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much do you reckon 10 to 15 hours of your time costs?????, let's say for arguments sake it costs $40.00 per hour......shit, that's $600.00 someone will have invested in labor alone, never mind, the actual cost of the part, shipping, plus what that person could have been doing during those 10 to 15 hours it took to modify this "wonderful" piece of metal.... Confused Confused Confused Confused kind of makes you think......
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we (klassicfab) make the funky green panels...........
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Nor_AL_67
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gerson wrote:
How much do you reckon 10 to 15 hours of your time costs?????, let's say for arguments sake it costs $40.00 per hour......shit, that's $600.00 someone will have invested in labor alone, never mind, the actual cost of the part, shipping, plus what that person could have been doing during those 10 to 15 hours it took to modify this "wonderful" piece of metal.... Confused Confused Confused Confused kind of makes you think......


Well said no arguments from me. I purchased the ww panel right after I purchased the bus before I heard about you. I'm still glad I did it though, that 10 hrs I spent was great in helping me learn how to weld, cut, fit and fabricate. I've got a little more confidence now to tackle the other corner and the cargo floors, doglegs, rockers.........will place a gerson order soon.
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Gerson
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you are right about the learning experience, that alone makes it worthwhile.... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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that's not patina, that's fucking rust man!!!!

we (klassicfab) make the funky green panels...........
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