Vanagon Tach controls

[coldwater_diver]

Hello, just wondering if anyone has ever found a supplier of an inductive tach which goes to the plug wires that has a wire long enough to go all the way back to the engine in a vanagon?????
day 5 of searching for an answer.....

Found alot of inductive tachs but nothing with a wire long enough
argh!!!!

[MarkWard]

What year vanagon? Points, electronic ignition, FI or carb conversion, Diesel? Not sure why you need an inductive tach. A little more information might be helpful. Regards
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[coldwater_diver]

1988 westy EFI 2.1 wasserboxer.
There is no signal coming out of the harness for a tach, The coil doesnt provide a break in the current its allways on....or atleast as far as we can detect. The Hall sender checked out at the distributor......
thats about it, just cant seem to get a signal that I can use, thats why I was thinking of using an inductive pickup off a plug wire.
thanks

[MarkWard]

Is your model fitted with a stock tach or a clock? Bentley shows the 88 getting a signal to the tach T14/9 from the fusebox on B19. Next there is a jumper between D26 and D19 on the fusebox. E12 on the fusebox connects to terminal 1 on the coil. There is a T7a/5 connector between the coil and the fusebox. You could be loosing the signal anywhere along that path. You will need a test light at minimum to check. You should also be getting a tach pulse on C21 of the fusebox. This will be much clearer with a Bentley manual. regards
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[crazyvwvanman]

There is already a tach signal in the dash for all 86+. On the wires to the instrument cluster there is a green wire to the 14 pin IC connector and that is the tach signal, even on 88 models that may have come without a tach.

Mark

[Dant]

I also am watching this thread as I will be connectng a tach to a Syncro.

My bus (van,oh boy...) has an analog clock where the tach should be. I tried a Sunpro Super Tach II picked up at a swap meet. I tried it off the coil and also off the pin that would be for the tach behind the dash, but it didn't seem to work.

I have since bought a new tach, same kind, and will be needing it when I install my rebuilt engine. (must follow Bob's instructions)

Is there something special about this deal? Is the pin what you would use for an add on tach, maybe that signal goes through some processing in the foil? Inductive Tach? Is there something different to hooking up a tach with a Hal senser in the dist? I have searched some, but still am wondering...

(edit) Is the above true for a 91?
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90 Carat
97 Jetta GLX
87 GL (nobody wanted it)
91 Syncro (Stripped,Plain Jane,fixed vent windows,no tach) also rusty. Hurray for me!

[crazyvwvanman]

You should just buy an 86+ tach cluster. It will be plug-n-play. You can get one cheaper without the speedo and move your speedo over or sell the extra speedo. This applies to 86-91. A minority of these came with the big clock instead of a tach but all have the tach signal as it is used by the oil pressure warning circuit in the IC for 86+.

Mark

[dr. no]

Try the (-) lead on the coil, the one with the green wire on it.
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'91 Fox

[coldwater_diver]

Well I have been through the Bentley, Version 2007. I tried the Sunpro, actually 2 of them, from the coil and green wire in the harness with no results. Then I tried an Autometer and the Autoguage tachs same scenario with no results.
I have been told that because the Digifant system uses the Hall sender only as a tach input that I should be able to pick up a signal from it.
I do have the Big clock , water temp and fuel all on the same unit, I would like to keep it that way if I can.
I have found a digital tach from Koso Northern, they make gauges for the aftermarket, but they get their inductive wire leads made out of Taiwan just like Equus. I have a meeting with Amerik-Dixon Automotive gauges( just down the street here in Colorado) they dont sell to the public but they do manufacture all types of gauges and their respective sending units in house!!
So hopefully they will have some insight into the situation.
I have contacted local Boat shops, RV shops, the Kenworth shop.....everyone in my area has been scouring their vendors but most of them come back with the same answer........
What kind of signal could I find in the fuse box at C21?
Thanks for all the help folks!!!

[MarkWard]

I agree, the route to go would be an 86 or newer cluster from a donor vanagon. I see them for sale here and on ebay. The tach cluster has a digital clock in the center. This is what I did for my TDI conversion. As mentioned, I sold the speedo and clock to recover some of my money. The problem with a tach signal from a Bosch electronic ignition is the voltage it works at. If you take a 12 volt test light with the engine running and touch it to the negative terminal of the coil, it will flash extremely bright compared to a 12 volt connection. Many aftermarket tachs are not suited for this "higher" voltage and that is why they don't function. C21 is a spot on the fusebox tied to the tach circuit that is not used on the 88. It is vacant according to the wiring diagram. If you probe it with a 12 volt test light with the engine running the test light should flash brightly. I don't think a digital voltmeter would show the On-off as the test light or an analog volt meter would. Here is a link to autometer discussing connecting a tach to a late model engine. http://www.autometer.com/tech_faq_answer.aspx?sid=3&qid=13
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[coldwater_diver]

Well Autometer said that they couldnt help even with their special COP adapter.....looks like I am going to be scouring the pages looking for an 86 or newer to swap in.
I have seen TDI clusters all over the place but just havent found a gas one
anyone????

[MarkWard]

To clarify, there are no TDI clusters that came in an US vanagons. There is someone selling a diesel cluster with a tach from Germany on the Samba. Even with freight, it looks to be a good deal. Any tach in any US cluster will be gas only. The diesels came with clocks. I think what you are seeing is TDI and TD conversions looking to add a tach. The adds are catering to those since they are the ones spending money to upgrade their vans. Search ebay parts for Vanagon. Several clusters are available. Those doing Subie conversions are also looking for tach clusters. Cheers.
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[crazyvwvanman]

Beware of the one currently listed on Ebay by someone named DigitalPizza. It is a 1985 cluster but he claims it is from an 88. They are not the same and the 85 cluster does not support the dual oil pressure system of the 2.1 engine. It will work on 86+ but would downgrade the oil warning system to the 1.9 system.

Mark

[ap]

How can you tell the difference? I'm looking for a 86+ cluster.

[MarkWard]

Ideally the person selling it would know what vehicle it came from. I just went through this and the tach from my 86 had 4 pins even though the circuit foil had 3 pins at the tach head. I needed an earlier tach to work with the ECU from the TDI and the tach I got has only 3 pins to match the circuit foil. Part of the deal I made for the earlier tach was to send my 86 tach back as a core. Otherwise I would be glad to part with it.
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[crazyvwvanman]

Ideally, sure. But parts get moved around from van to van over the years as people try to fix things. Instrument clusters are often swapped as people have dead speedo/odo they want to work or to add a tach to a van that came with a big clock there. While most 85+ had tachs some big clock models were sold all the way to 91.

The seller on Ebay I mentioned may have really taken it from an 88 but it is still an 85 cluster, not correct for 86+.

I doubt if 99.9% of Vanagon guys could tell the difference just by looking.

Mark

[coldwater_diver]

Well I had a sit down with the folks at Ametek-Dixon, they were less than helpful. They said they would try and produce something that would work but only if I could purchase around 10K of them lol.
Then I went down the road to the nearby VW "guy" Grand Mesa Imports.
He tried to "trade" me my old cluster, out of my 84 for a tach and cluster he had. Showed up and it was a POS that was all busted up, had to be out of a older van because it didnt even have the right # of pins on the foil to hook it up. ARGH!
So my search continues, the guys at the van cafe said they had one that would work but had to go get it from their source.......
Anyone have any other ideas about how to remedy this whole tach issue???
thanks

[MarkWard]

Did a search here for you. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=672470

See if it is still available.
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[coldwater_diver]

Hey thanks for the heads up. I sent an email to see if I can arrange to buy it. How would I know that it is the right model for my van?
Pin count? anything else that will make sure it is from the right year???
Thanks again!

[Witless Joe]

Are you certain that you had continuity in the circuit of the "green wire", all the way from the coil to the tach?

Did you check it with an ohm meter?

I would be sorely tempted to try one of those aftermarket tachs again, and just run a jumper wire directly from the coil to the tach, right through the interior of the van, quick & ugly. That would eliminate any chance of flaky Vanagon wiring & connections screwing with the result.

The Vanagon isn't magic. There shouldn't be a problem with an aftermarket tach.