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What kind of gas mileage do you get??
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sturgeongeneral
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:33 pm    Post subject: What kind of gas mileage do you get?? Reply with quote

What kind of gas mileage do you get in your buggy and what motor? 2375 set for full race, mostly run on the street for me. Dual Webers, 010 dizzy (by Glenn of course). I was getting about 14 mpg or so. Now that it is broken in, about 1500 miles, I just checked and got 18.99 mpg. Still got the crashbox tranny and will be ordering my 3.83 flyer next week. Should do better with the different ratios. What are you getting?
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clonebug
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With a stock 1600 dual port, dual kadrons, stock 67 swingaxle trans and 27.5 inch tall tires I get a consistant 26.4 mpg. I have checked it numerous times and it stays right in that range. that is mostly driving for fun and taking it to work.

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lostinbaja
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the bone stock 1600DP I get 33mpg with the dual IDF 1914 I get 27 on a good day.
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manxracer1
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:39 am    Post subject: not sure yet Reply with quote

It's a 2442cc turbo motor with an 825 CFM Mighty Demon hanging off the side of the turbo. I'm figureing about 2 to 3 with my foot in it & 12 to 15 crusing around on the street. It runs on C-14 race fuel @ 10.76 a gallon. I'll find out when it goes back together.


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LeeVW
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always hate these threads, as everyone seems to get at least 10 more MPG out of a stock engine than I ever could. This thread is no exception. Maybe you guys can help.

My buggy has 28" tall rear tires, and the trans has a 4.37 R&P and a 1.00 fourth gear. It requires all that in order to climb the grades at speed. The tach reads around 3,500 RPM at 60 MPH, which is where I cruise. When the buggy only has two people in it AND it is driven very gently, the best I can get is around 23-24 MPG. That's highway and city combined, no "spirited" acceleration. When the buggy is loaded down with over 200 pounds of camping gear, the mileage is a bit worse, maybe 18-20 MPG highway. Off-road, it drops to anywhere from 15-19 MPG, depending on how deep the sand is and how steep the climbs are.

The engine is a stock 1600 with Compufire ignition module and a Mallory HyFire 6A CDI. Spark plugs are Bosch Platinum W8AP gapped to .040". Wires are stock Bosch. Carb is a stock Solex 34PICT-3 with original jetting, including the 127.5 main jet. Spark plugs have always been the correct tan color when they have been removed. Exhaust is EMPI Quiet Pack with intake manifold heat risers routed properly. Distributor is an Aircooled.net SVDA timed to 30 degrees max advance at 3,500 RPM with the vacuum hose disconnected. I think I have the mixture and accelerator pump adjusted properly, as the car has no hesitation whatsoever and runs very well.

Any ideas why I can't ever reproduce the mileage that everyone else gets?

Lee
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seabeebuggy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dont worry Lee, I get like 10 MPG.
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Endoboy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a 1600dp (8.3:1 compression w/Engle 100 cam) with dual Weber ICT-34s and 15x8 rims with BFG Radial TA 245-70R15s, and my mileage is weird. In town, I get around 15mpg, but on the freeway, I get over 30mpg. Going on one tank from Tahoe back to Santa Cruz I got 37mpg. I think that I'm a little heavy on the pedal around town, just cause it's fun, but I've never gotten more than 20mpg around town, even trying to be frugal.
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lostinbaja
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeeVW wrote:
I always hate these threads, as everyone seems to get at least 10 more MPG out of a stock engine than I ever could. This thread is no exception. Maybe you guys can help.

My buggy has 28" tall rear tires, and the trans has a 4.37 R&P and a 1.00 fourth gear. It requires all that in order to climb the grades at speed. The tach reads around 3,500 RPM at 60 MPH, which is where I cruise. When the buggy only has two people in it AND it is driven very gently, the best I can get is around 23-24 MPG. That's highway and city combined, no "spirited" acceleration. When the buggy is loaded down with over 200 pounds of camping gear, the mileage is a bit worse, maybe 18-20 MPG highway. Off-road, it drops to anywhere from 15-19 MPG, depending on how deep the sand is and how steep the climbs are.

The engine is a stock 1600 with Compufire ignition module and a Mallory HyFire 6A CDI. Spark plugs are Bosch Platinum W8AP gapped to .040". Wires are stock Bosch. Carb is a stock Solex 34PICT-3 with original jetting, including the 127.5 main jet. Spark plugs have always been the correct tan color when they have been removed. Exhaust is EMPI Quiet Pack with intake manifold heat risers routed properly. Distributor is an Aircooled.net SVDA timed to 30 degrees max advance at 3,500 RPM with the vacuum hose disconnected. I think I have the mixture and accelerator pump adjusted properly, as the car has no hesitation whatsoever and runs very well.

Any ideas why I can't ever reproduce the mileage that everyone else gets?

Lee


IT"S THE GAS! California's gasoline formulation does not lend itself to high fuel economy, but it does emit less hydrocarbons Smile . My Brother is hand carrying 5 gallons of gas to VW Paradise so they can dyno tune his new turbo motor with good pump gas!
My fuel economy goes down noticably, if I buy the top line fuel from Shell or BP because it's oxygenated.
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nightmanx11
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What difference does it make if we get 30 MPG or 10 MPG? Rolling Eyes I am in this hobby because of the enjoyment I receive from being exposed to all of it and the people involved.

I sure hope that we never develop a "big wristwatch - little di&k syndrome".

Build the buggy/car, drive it and enjoy the wind in your hair, go camping, or try a 4 or 5 day trip in the wilderness. Laughing

Quit worrying about the MPG, these things were made for having fun, fun, and more fun. Very Happy
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LeeVW
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies.

To the Turbo Guys: You traded economy for fun, and I'm sure it's well worth it!

To Jerry: What you said about the lousy CA gas makes a lot of sense. I'm willing to bet the single carb has something to do with it too, as it's not the most efficient setup.

"What difference does it make if we get 30 MPG or 10 MPG?"

I can go three times farther on the same amount of gas. I am a very strange individual. I do not trailer my buggy to the desert, and I sleep in a tent. My stuff goes everywhere I go, and there's no base camp with extra jugs of fuel. It is also typical for me to leave the pavement on a Friday morning and not see it again until Sunday afternoon. I can carry about 14 gallons of fuel onboard. At 20 MPG, I can go 280 miles before running out of gas. At 15 MPG I can only go 210 miles. Range is everything in my style of buggy exploration. So far, I have always had enough gas, but I did cut it closer than I would like during one trip. Every little bit helps.

Lee
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lostinbaja
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here in the Chicago area, we will soon be getting the "Winter fuel Formulation" I usually see the mileage in my Buick drop from 31mpg to 25mpg until Spring when the "Summer fuel formulation" shows up.
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clonebug
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee,

I would say your gear ratios have a lot to do with it.

I have 275/60-15 tires at 27.5 inches in diameter and my engine at 70 mph is just under 3000 rpm.

3500 rpm at 60 seems pretty low geared. It would be the tradeoff for you due to the fact that you carry a lot more weight and also go in terrain where the lower gears are needed for hills.

Also your wind resistance is more than likely much higher than others if you carry a bunch of gear up top.

Do you have a modified transmission with lower third and fourth gears??

If so, that would be a reason right there.

Clonebug
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LeeVW
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I have 275/60-15 tires at 27.5 inches in diameter and my engine at 70 mph is just under 3000 rpm."

That sounds exactly right for a stock '67 trans and 27.5" tall tires. Mine was the same at first, but it was a dog.

I had my '72 Beetle trans regeared in the following manner:

R&P - From 4.12 to 4.37
Third - From 1.26 to 1.32
Fourth - From .89 to 1.00

All of those changes were necessary in order to get the little 1600 to push the buggy up the hills in fourth gear. I had tried running it with all the stock gearing, but ANY incline would force me back down into third gear. The engine simply didn't have the power to overcome a grade of any size. It does great with the new gearing, although my top speed is limited to short bursts up to 70 MPH (4,000 RPM). That's just fine by me, I'm not in a hurry. I still have to go back down to third gear on steep hills and high headwinds (which seem to go hand in hand), but I'm in fourth gear for most of the trip.

As a point of interest, the gas mileage didn't really change when I did the gear ratio changes. I guess lugging the engine with the higher gears used just as much gas as having the engine spin faster at the same speed. It's all about keeping the engine in the RPM range where it makes the most torque. Larger engines can get away with lower RPMs because they have more torque on tap. That's how a bigger engine is capable of using less gas. I think the 1600 in a loaded down buggy is kind of like the 1600 in a Bus. It is forced to produce most of its available output most of the time, so efficiency has to drop off.

"Also your wind resistance is more than likely much higher than others if you carry a bunch of gear up top."

I guess that COULD have SOMETHING to do with it!!!

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Lee
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junior55
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with nightmanx and I think it would be safe to say that
most buggiests would like to get great mileage but would readily trade it off for more power if they could.

I have said it before,.. my buggy is probably the closest thing that I will ever have that is of true sports car like performance.
Its my "motorcycle" with extra wheels and safety features built in.
It satisfies a need for speed and is just fun to drive!
Miles per gallon on a well done buggy engine is just OK at best...
that's if you can get your foot to go along with the program.
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63scout
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:50 am    Post subject: Gas Milage Reply with quote

I myself am hoping to get way more than around 25mpg from my Empi Imp when its finally on the road. 1600dp with mild "bus cam" single carb, new jugs and slugs,rebuilts heads,and headers 26" rear tires driven mostly in a sane fashion on mostly open country roads in N.E. pa. summers. I have a 95' Voyager 3.0 v-6 that ate two auto tranny's until I installed a 5 speed from a dodge daytona,( easy job too ) and now I easily get 24-25mpg around town , and on a recent 400 mile trip, I got 30.5 mpg on the interstate. With that in mind, I have hopes of pulling 28-30 with the Imp if I behave, and 18-22 if I can't resist a little g-force. On the open road I will strive for 33 mpg.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get around 25 with the buggy - 1776, dual kads, mild heads. Late geared swing tranny. Of course, it would do better if I kept my foot out of it, but what's the fun in that?
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Luftwagen 2180
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: What kind of gas mileage do you get?? Reply with quote

I realize that this is an old post, but I found out something that surprised me. My wife and I just got back from doing Route 66 from Wilmington IL to Flagstaff AZ. I've had the Buggy for 51 years now and had never been on that long of a trip with it. Almost all of the trip was dry and VERY HOT! Most of the driving west was full of stops along the way. I had the roof on for shade but the windows out for the air flow. When we stopped at my sisters in Phoenix for a week visit I figured out our gas mileage. The wife's Gremlin was getting about 18 MPG, which was kind of expected, but the Buggy was only about 22 MPG. It's a 2180 with a Holley progressive on it with a stock cam. I'm running a 68 transaxle with 255/70/15 rear tires. I was hoping for better. We rarely went over 63 MPH.

However on the way home heading east it was cool the one morning so I had the windows in for awhile. It didn't take too long to get too warm, so I removed just the drivers window. Good airflow for staying cool and much less wind noise then both windows open. Total fill ups on the way home was 14. I was keeping track of the mileage and noticed that the mileage jumped to 30MPG whenever I had at least 1 window in. I was hoping to have the back window removable before the trip but that didn't work out. I was surprised with the difference the roof without the windows makes.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:17 am    Post subject: Re: What kind of gas mileage do you get?? Reply with quote

Thanks for bringing this old thread to light! I have a personal stake in fuel economy living where we do and being retired on a fixed income. Fuel range is my utmost concern. Comparisons between us who drive the same beasts help confirm whether or not our cars are tuned as they should be to get the best possible from our driving budget.

Wind resistance is the number one factor in that equation as confirmed by your observations. Thanks for that! Our Buggies even though lighter than the Beetles they were made from are not nearly as aerodynamically clean.

I have always felt that my Buggy should at least match the 34 mpg that my '71 SB used to get but to date 29.9 mpg is the best I have managed. That's with a horizontal bath tub (no roof) being pushed by a 1911cc engine with a very mild street cam, stock heads, 40mm Webers and crank trigger ignition.

Have I peaked out? Possibly, there is a gearing change in the wings so we will see...

Note: all my numbers are with the 20% larger Imperial gallon. If your numbers are in US gallons then you are doing better than I am. Is it the roof?
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Luftwagen 2180
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: What kind of gas mileage do you get?? Reply with quote

I posted in US MPG since that is what most on here are thinking in. When I mention MPG to some local (younger) members of our VW club, I get a glassy eyed look. I'll have to figure it out in liters/100 kms now. Rolling Eyes

Yes, it's probably the roof. When I was running a 1649 the top speed was best with the roof and windows in, then roof off and slowest with the roof on and windows out. I wanted to have the back window removable but the guy who was going to do it kept stalling and I wasn't going to postpone our trip. For a 4,200 mile trip I wish I had known the mileage difference before I started.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: What kind of gas mileage do you get?? Reply with quote

Buggies are aerodynamic bricks, actually they are worse than a brick, a brick is at least somewhat smooth.

The fenders trap air, If you have a windshield there is a huge low pressure area behind it that drags on the car. Air gets jammed up against the fronts of the tires. There are vortexes and low pressure areas generated all over the body.

When I first got my buggy I took it out on the freeway and the most I could achieve was 55mph. I took the windshield off and went 65mph, the windshield sat in the basement for 18 years till I finally put it on another car and sold it.

At Bonneville with my street buggy as soon as I lifted at the end of a run the car would slow down so much it would actually achieve negative Gs without touching the brakes at all. A friend who was also racing a buggy there built an airdam that covered the front shock towers and control arms. It slowed the car down because of the low pressure area created behind the airdam.

My street buggy with my ex-race box 3.88/.82, 1904cc Web163, 40x35, 9.3:1 and 26" tires gets 35mpg at 68mph
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