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hashmaster3k's 1963 project
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hashmaster3k
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:39 pm    Post subject: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

Hello everyone!

I bought a 1963 bug this last Saturday (04/08/17). It has a 1600 dual port engine and transmission is fairly new (according to previous owner). It runs real great! It was restored by the previous owner back in 2000.

First things first, I know that the front fenders are not '63. I do plan on changing them out when I find a set. Not on the top of my priority list.

A lot of the floor pan is rusted. I found a 1961 floor pan with no rust that I plan on buying and swapping out eventually.

The biggest thing so far is that there are no brakes. The pedal goes straight to the floor with no resistance. I basically had to drive it in neighborhoods using engine braking and the e-brake. Needless to say, I left the bug at my girlfriends house until Wednesday when I'm going to go pick it up using a trailer.

My overall plan is to basically restore it again but not necessary to factory specs. While I will do an entire tear down, I may not utilize 100% factory parts.

Anyway, enjoy the first picture I took Very Happy

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

Those are 1-year only 1967 fenders which are in demand, especially if they are original German, not later reproductions.

The rest look good, nut we want more photos!
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hashmaster3k
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
Those are 1-year only 1967 fenders which are in demand, especially if they are original German, not later reproductions.

The rest look good, nut we want more photos!


How did you identify them as '67? How do I know if its German made?

I will definitely post more on Wednesday!
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

hashmaster3k wrote:
How did you identify them as '67? How do I know if its German made?

'67 front fenders are the one & only year that have upright headlights with no glass covers and the small chrome horn grills below them.

The easiest way to tell original German fenders from aftermarket reproductions is to note the distance from the inner fender edge to the horn grill opening. On an original fender, that distance would be about the width of 2 fingers, or about 1 9/16". On repro fenders, the distance is a bit larger...maybe about 2 3/4". Also, the cutout in the top of the fender for the turn signal is round in a German fender and 'D'-shaped in a repro.

↓ This photo shows the difference in horn grill openings on a German fender (on the left) vs. an aftermarket replacement.

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hashmaster3k
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:10 pm    Post subject: Re: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

Thanks for the info! It looks like the after market one is also recessed more than the OEM. The photo I posted doesn't show but I'll check on that on Wednesday as well.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

You might want to consider selling the 1961 pan and use the funds from that to get new pan halves. That way you keep the original chassi with the body.

Nice project. Do consider getting dual circuit master cylinder and use DOT 5 silicon brake fluid. The former for safer brakes and the latter for less brake maintenance and expense in the long run.
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hashmaster3k
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:
You might want to consider selling the 1961 pan and use the funds from that to get new pan halves. That way you keep the original chassi with the body.

Nice project. Do consider getting dual circuit master cylinder and use DOT 5 silicon brake fluid. The former for safer brakes and the latter for less brake maintenance and expense in the long run.


I originally was considering buying new floor pans, cutting, welding and sealing but I figured the '61 pan being original steel from VW and in great condition would be better than having thin aftermarket pans. Maybe I'm wrong, very new at this.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

hashmaster3k wrote:

I originally was considering buying new floor pans, cutting, welding and sealing but I figured the '61 pan being original steel from VW and in great condition would be better than having thin aftermarket pans. Maybe I'm wrong, very new at this.


There are vendors that you can get pans from that are very near VW quality, and same thickness.

Other way you could go is to drill out the pan half welds and weld them into your chassi. Just depends how much your time is worth.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

If you do the 61 pan, make sure you get a good title for it... because that's what your 63 will have to be legally registered as.
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hashmaster3k
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

I am going to be pulling in the bug today and figure out why the brakes aren't working. Will take pictures for those curious.

Questions about the decklid. Since the engine was swapped for a 1600cc. The previous owner had said the decklid couldn't be 100% closed since there were no louvers, thus having the decklid popped out. Is there anyway to keep the engine cool without having a louvered decklid or keeping it open?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

First off, nice looking bug.
Second, you don't need louvers, only convertibles need them. If you want the extra cooling I guess you could add louvers, but I don't see a point. I agree with the other poster, keep the OG pan and either weld Wolfsburg West pans or cut the pans out of the other chassis and weld them into the original one.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:01 pm    Post subject: Re: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

Do post images of the engine in question from several angles, side to side, a shot up underneath, etc. and one looking up front (front as in closer to the front bumper) of the shroud from the left side.

All single port engines came with a fan shroud that the oil cooler is before the 3&4 cylinders. So that air flow going to those cylinders is heated up. Which leads to hotter cylinders on that side which fail more often, especially #3.

1600 dual port engine in 1971 introduced the dog house cooler. Which the shroud has the cooler in a separate box chamber on the front of the shroud. All cooling air to 3&4 is no longer heated up by the oil cooler, because air is ported to the cooler and hot air from that exhausted out the front engine tin. This does require a bigger cooling fan than was used on the single port engines though.

So the question now is if you have a DH shroud or not. DH cooling system can be adapted to be used on a single port engine, and if someone wanted a non-DH could be put on a dual port engine. So going by just the intake manifold is not good enough.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

67ctbug wrote:
First off, nice looking bug.
Second, you don't need louvers, only convertibles need them. If you want the extra cooling I guess you could add louvers, but I don't see a point. I agree with the other poster, keep the OG pan and either weld Wolfsburg West pans or cut the pans out of the other chassis and weld them into the original one.


I don't want to add louvers, but rather want to know if there is another way to keep the engine cool while having the decklid closed. More coolers perhaps?

Eric&Barb wrote:
Do post images of the engine in question from several angles, side to side, a shot up underneath, etc. and one looking up front (front as in closer to the front bumper) of the shroud from the left side.

All single port engines came with a fan shroud that the oil cooler is before the 3&4 cylinders. So that air flow going to those cylinders is heated up. Which leads to hotter cylinders on that side which fail more often, especially #3.

1600 dual port engine in 1971 introduced the dog house cooler. Which the shroud has the cooler in a separate box chamber on the front of the shroud. All cooling air to 3&4 is no longer heated up by the oil cooler, because air is ported to the cooler and hot air from that exhausted out the front engine tin. This does require a bigger cooling fan than was used on the single port engines though.

So the question now is if you have a DH shroud or not. DH cooling system can be adapted to be used on a single port engine, and if someone wanted a non-DH could be put on a dual port engine. So going by just the intake manifold is not good enough.


Here are the pictures as requested. I lifted the vehicle and took off the right rear wheel to see the condition of the brakes. It seems the boot on the brake cylinder has a tear but I don't really see a leak coming from it. However, there is a leak coming from the axle seal? I'm not sure what I'd need to replace with that. New bearings and seal?

The underside and all the fenders was caked with mud so I took a pressure washer (not super high powered) and washed the underside.

I drained the transmission oil (gray) and engine oil (black). Will be putting oil in it tomorrow. Transmission fluid was a little low as it seems to be leaking from the seal.

Found more rust spots, and what appears to me a rusted patch job...I got quite a bit of work cut out for me.

Now with the brakes. They still don't work. I didn't find any leaks from the lines or fittings. I'm wondering if its the master brake cylinder. Brake fluid in the reservoir isn't low. I may try replacing it with a cheap part to see if I get flow. Then maybe run with that for a bit. I'd like to buy the entire brake rebuild kit, with the new lines, fittings, shoes, drums, cylinders, etc. I wonder if I should buy it now or just get it going until I do the pans..


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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:50 pm    Post subject: Re: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

No you do not want to just add more oil coolers. Air needs to be pumped over the entire engine. First need to figure if you have dog house shroud or not. Think it is DH due to the hose connection on upper right of the shroud. Even so you can do the tennis ball trick in the Summer to keep the bottom of the engine lid open a tad for more air flowing in.

Possible the brake system is now all rusted up. Standard brake fluid sucks moisture right out of the air and once the water content of the brake fluid is high enough rust occurs inside. Can even cause sudden brake failure due to hard braking heating up the brake system enough to turn the water inside into steam and the pedal goes all the way down.... So replacing the brake fluid every 30,000 miles or two years whichever happens first is a must with that type of brake fluid. Replace all four brake flex lines to skip problems on the road..

Have been converting our VWs to DOT 5 brake fluid that is a silicon that does not attract in water. Where before we were having to take each brake cylinder every 18 months to 24 months to clean out light rust and replace the old fluid. Now with DOT 5 have gotten eight year without brake problems and the need to take the system apart. Still good to bleed each wheel each year to rid the system of any water that might have gotten in. Fortunately water and DOT 5 do not mix, but separate just like water and oil. Water will end up at the lowest points of the system at the wheels

Time to upgrade to a dual master cylinder so when (not if) you loose a wheel cylinder you will have the other axle brakes working. You most likely will have to replace all the brake cylinders anyway due to rust. If you can clean out the cylinders you should invest in brake cylinder rebuild kits to do the job properly. Rubber parts only last so long...

RR wheel well, the hole up at the front of that in the body is into the heater channel. Do not want to ruin your day, but that might indicate you will need to replace that heater channel. At the very least you will need to derust the insides of it, then primer & paint, and weld new metal over that hole.

Still could use the photo of looking around the left front side of the shroud to make sure it is DH.

Need to get the plastic clips that snap in the three holes on the rear of the fan shroud. That will shut off those holes there so cooling air will not be lost thru them, and the spark plug cables snap into the clips. Keeping the cables from touching and possibly shorting out on metal.

Probably need new axle seals to keep the gear oil from leaking at the brake backing plate. Could be the axle nuts were not tightened down to proper torque and that let the oil to leak.

It looks like a nice project, but will take some time and energy.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

From the underside image can see that the LH rear of the heater channel is also rusted thru...

Wiring will need to be cleaned up and get factory brass terminals either soldered and heat shrinked on or ratchet crimped on as done at the factory. Those cheap terminals will cause you headaches.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:15 pm    Post subject: Re: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

If he's running a stock engine, shouldn't he not need to even have the lid open?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

67ctbug wrote:
If he's running a stock engine, shouldn't he not need to even have the lid open?


Stock engine with stock DH shroud with stock DH bigger fan and crankshaft pulley require more air flow into the engine compartment. Thusly why in the early 1970s the stock engine lid on all Beetles got the extra louvers...
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

Oh that makes sense... then he could do the tennis ball thing or get a louvered deck lid I guess. Or... he could just get a period correct engine.
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The constant fear of death is half the fun of driving a vintage VW Very Happy

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...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". Laughing

djkeev wrote:
So you're saying that the DeLorean "Mr. Fusion" kits fit the 68 Chevelle as well?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

67ctbug wrote:
Oh that makes sense... then he could do the tennis ball thing or get a louvered deck lid I guess. Or... he could just get a period correct engine.


Exactly. Personally love the 40 HP or big bore 40 HP engines. Still the DH cooling system work really well on those engines also.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: hashmaster3k's 1963 project Reply with quote

I found out today that according to the engine code (F0863677) that the engine case is actually a 1966 1300cc engine. Manufacture date between Aug 1 - Dec 31 in 1965...So since its truly not a 1600cc motor what would the previous owner had to do in order to switch it to being considered a "1600cc dual port" motor? Here are more pictures to help with identification.

According to The Samba
Quote:
F0, F1, F2 | 1966-1970 | 1300cc 40bhp DIN, 50HP SAE (only 1966 in USA, 66-70 elsewhere)


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On a more positive side note, all of my brake parts have arrived. I plan on installing this coming Saturday. The kit I bought comes with a single cylinder master. Eventually when I do the full tear down I will switch do dual circuit. Right now I just went with the kit to drive it for a year or so until I can gather my parts for the full tear down. Parts list includes:


    Italian Brake Drum Kit
    German Master & Wheel Cylinders
    Brake Rebuild Kit
    Brake Hose Clips
    Wheel Bearing Front Inners
    Wheel Bearing Front Outers
    Wheel Bearing Front Seals
    Wheel Bearing Cover Front Left
    Wheel Bearing Cover Front Right
    Thrust Washers Front
    Spindle Nuts Front Right
    Spindle Nuts Front Left
    Wheel Bearings Rear
    Rear Axle Seal Kits
    Axle Seals Rear
    Brake Reservoir w/Cap
    Master Cylinder Plug
    Brake Hose Reservoir to Master Cylinder
    Hand Brake Cables
    Hand Brake Lever Kit


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Last edited by hashmaster3k on Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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