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Brake problem
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MostafaShams
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 8:25 am    Post subject: Brake problem Reply with quote

i has very soft brakes after my car was not used for over 5 years
i changed master cylinder , and it got stiffer not that stiff but worked good and i used the car for over 900 km after that

than i got the brakes loose once again after couple of weeks suddenly , i found a leak in the rear wheel , changed faulty brake pipe , got air out of the 4 wheels

it got stiffer but then loose again , when i press the braked it gets stiffer after couple of pressings , but once i start the engine it gets loose

the mechanic told me to make it rest and it will gets stiffer normally , but i think it is too loose to be fixed automatically , is this correct or what ?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: brake problem Reply with quote

5 years is a long time to sit without use. Brake fluid is really caustic stuff! Eats everything, in time! At the very least, you should replace the brake hoses and wheel cylinders, as the rubber inside them has been eaten away a bit, causing a partial leak. It is the most likely explanation of your issue. Well, besides a brake shoe adjustment. But your mechanic should have done that as the very first step!

If you bleed the brakes, what color was the fluid on the first couple of pumps?
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MostafaShams
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: brake problem Reply with quote

actually it is very different here in middle east
they don't bleed the breaks in a jar but rather add brake fluid and someone keeps pressing the brakes , while the mechanic opens the outlet at the backside of the hub , and it scatteres every where Very Happy untill he feels no hissing comes out of the pipe
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: brake problem Reply with quote

MostafaShams wrote:
actually it is very different here in middle east
they don't bleed the breaks in a jar but rather add brake fluid and someone keeps pressing the brakes , while the mechanic opens the outlet at the backside of the hub , and it scatteres every where Very Happy untill he feels no hissing comes out of the pipe


I’ve seen this method before as well. It CAN work but as you say it makes a huge mess. The only issue with this is that you cannot guarantee that all the small bubbles have been released. Sometimes when you bleed the brakes and then wait, all these small air bubbles join back up (coalesce) and you need to repeat the bleeding.

The jar method gives you a visual of the amount of air in the fluid. Pumping must be done slowly to avoid making too many of these micro bubbles.

When you say soft brakes, do you mean the pedal goes down too far? Does the pedal become stiffer when you press the brakes a few times?

I assume you have drum brakes all round. Do you have the brakes adjusted close to the drum? That may explain why you can go 900km before you have problems again.

The other reason for “soft” pedal can be caused by mixing of silicone and non silicone brake fluids. Ask your mechanic what fluid is in it.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:15 am    Post subject: Re: brake problem Reply with quote

this does sound like air in the fluid and if one part of the system has needed replacement then more is probably needed. have you checked the hoses/pipes and wheel cylinders all round for signs of leaks? was the master cylinder filled and bled before fitting?

I am assuming that proper brake fluid is being used and not 'cuban homebrew' ?
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Nitramrebrab72
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: brake problem Reply with quote

Old fluid???? It might be bubbling. Did it happen after heavy braking?
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MostafaShams
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: Brake problem Reply with quote

well after i got it to run , i replaced master cylinder , and changed brake oil , the mechanic took the air from the outlets , it was a little soft but worked , after that it suddenly got faulty with no brakes , i went to a mechanic and the rear wheel was leaking , he changed the pipe and took the air from the outlets in the back of the wheels , it was still very soft , he told me it will get stiffer by time

unfortunately i got an accident today because of the brakes got so loose again , and i am going to the mechanic tomorrow Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: Brake problem Reply with quote

MostafaShams wrote:
he changed the pipe and took the air from the outlets in the back of the wheels , it was still very soft , he told me it will get stiffer by time


That is NEVER true. You need a new mechanic.
Was anyone injured in your accident? Hope you and the car are OK.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: Brake problem Reply with quote

I believe the ONLY time braking improves with time is when new brake linings are bedding in (conforming to the arc of the drum) to create maximum surface contact. This doesn't make for a soft pedal ... that's a hydraulic issue. I agree with wdfifteen, you need a new mechanic that knows what they are doing AND will do what is necessary to make your brakes work properly for your safety and the safety of everyone in your path.
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MostafaShams
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake problem Reply with quote

Quote:
Was anyone injured in your accident? Hope you and the car are OK.


thanks god no one got injured but the fender and bumper needs some work to get right , i will try to seek a new mechanic
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake problem Reply with quote

It is both of your faults! The mechanic for not understanding the caustic nature of brake fluid and yours for not reading the responses in your own thread and utilizing that free knowledge.
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Busstom
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: brake problem Reply with quote

MostafaShams wrote:
actually it is very different here in middle east
they don't bleed the breaks in a jar but rather add brake fluid and someone keeps pressing the brakes , while the mechanic opens the outlet at the backside of the hub , and it scatteres every where Very Happy untill he feels no hissing comes out of the pipe

That's fine, this is the way many of us still do it here in the States, including me (well, except for letting it spatter everywhere, and the hissing part).

The difference is we usually catch the discharging fluid in a bottle, jar, or other suitable container which is usually transparent, and ideally it is not of glass or breakable material. The fluid is fed into such a container via (ideally) a transparent poly hose, and instead of listening for hissing sounds, we observe for the absence of air bubbles in the discharge stream to prevail, then cinch the "bleed screw" tight.

Of course, there are many methods and opinions about how this whole process is/can/should be done, but that old tried-and-true method still works, especially in Egypt where not everybody may have access to so many gadgets and specialty tools, or the means to make them, as others here have done.

I see in your other thread that the car was looking good, shame that an unscrupulous "mechanic" mislead you down a dangerous path.
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MostafaShams
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 11:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake problem Reply with quote

yeah right , we don't have access to that many tools
and also i am in a very distant city far from the capital where the true vw mechanics aren't available , so i can't get a decent mechanic here

i went again to the mechanic and he tightened the brake shoes i think from the holes in the wheel , it has functional brakes now but still little soft , but manageable and better than before , just the first push is little soft and it slows the car , but the next push on the pedal become tight , the third one stops the car immediately

i noticed the elevation of the hand brake became too low like there is not space to pull it to the end , it holds up tight after couple of clicks , thats why i think he tightened the brake plates

i will try to bleed the brakes my self as i can't get tools around here , even brake bleeders are not available to buy here , i watched a little video about a diy brake bleeder , with a hose and plastic pottle , i will try to assemble that and see if i can get to work myself
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MostafaShams
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 11:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake problem Reply with quote

Quote:
I see in your other thread that the car was looking good, shame that an unscrupulous "mechanic" mislead you down a dangerous path.


well yeah the car is great and i will continue fixing it to make it perfect ,
actually a friend of mine did that little accident Laughing
although he is owned a beetle before , and i told him the brakes are very soft like there is no brakes and only handbrake works on slow acceleration , and he said he can manage but anyway he couldn't handle it
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Nitramrebrab72
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 1:04 am    Post subject: Re: brake problem Reply with quote

VW_Jimbo wrote:
5 years is a long time to sit without use. Brake fluid is really caustic stuff! Eats everything, in time! At the very least, you should replace the brake hoses and wheel cylinders, as the rubber inside them has been eaten away a bit, causing a partial leak. It is the most likely explanation of your issue. Well, besides a brake shoe adjustment. But your mechanic should have done that as the very first step!

If you bleed the brakes, what color was the fluid on the first couple of pumps?


Totally False!!!! Brake fluid is not at all caustic to the EPDM(synthetic rubber type) used in brake systems not only that it is not caustic it actually stops it drying out and protects it over time , it is also non corrosive for all of the types of metals used in the braking system..
What it will do though due to it's simialar molecular structure to non silicone based paints ,is to be pulled into the paint, the brake fluid that is ,thinning the paint but not only ,the brake fluid then pulls in water the 3 components create a highly corrosive paint thinner/stripper leading to paint bubbling and rust.

Easy mistake to be made when one jumps to conclusions based on appearances and not only with brake fluid...... Laughing Cool Rolling Eyes


What can happen over time though is enough humidity is absorbed into the brake system eventually modifying the PH level to an acidic level which may effect the braking system.

Maybe draining all the fluid and refilling /bleeding would be a good start. And no not just a flush as it leaves way too much of the old fluid in there .
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: brake problem Reply with quote

Nitramrebrab72 wrote:
VW_Jimbo wrote:
5 years is a long time to sit without use. Brake fluid is really caustic stuff! Eats everything, in time! At the very least, you should replace the brake hoses and wheel cylinders, as the rubber inside them has been eaten away a bit, causing a partial leak. It is the most likely explanation of your issue. Well, besides a brake shoe adjustment. But your mechanic should have done that as the very first step!

If you bleed the brakes, what color was the fluid on the first couple of pumps?


Totally False!!!! Brake fluid is not at all caustic to the EPDM(synthetic rubber type) used in brake systems not only that it is not caustic it actually stops it drying out and protects it over time , it is also non corrosive for all of the types of metals used in the braking system..
What it will do though due to it's simialar molecular structure to non silicone based paints ,is to be pulled into the paint, the brake fluid that is ,thinning the paint but not only ,the brake fluid then pulls in water the 3 components create a highly corrosive paint thinner/stripper leading to paint bubbling and rust.

Easy mistake to be made when one jumps to conclusions based on appearances and not only with brake fluid...... Laughing Cool Rolling Eyes


What can happen over time though is enough humidity is absorbed into the brake system eventually modifying the PH level to an acidic level which may effect the braking system.

Maybe draining all the fluid and refilling /bleeding would be a good start. And no not just a flush as it leaves way too much of the old fluid in there .


Ok Buddy.

Wrenching professionally for years taught me ALOT! And one thing for sure is brake fluid is a very aggressive solution! Takes paint off in a blink of an eye! It is hygroscopic, meaning it absorbs water right out of the air, it is in contact with, making for some good times with the STEEL LINES AND BRAKE BODIES of the VW Bugs brake system. I have found that the water egress that takes place during the sitting of ANY CAR with type 3 and below brake fluids, devastates a static brake system.

Maybe you have had a different experience, but I for SURE know what I have seen and worked on through my years.

I did not say that the fluid was caustic to the seals. It is the ability of the fluid to absorb water and then allow that water to compromise the steel components.

Maybe review what happens to steel when it encounters water. Then what happens to the rubber seals when shards of rusty steel hit those perfect seals, a few hundred times. I know, but I will give you time to figure it out. Betting you get to where I am at. It eats the “indestructible “ seal in several cycle, leading to more water egress! Then the cycle continues until the components are all rusty and in need of replacement!
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There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

TDCTDI wrote:
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look.


67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
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