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kdfkid
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2004
Posts: 395
Location: Hessisch Oldendorf Germany
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 Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:12 am Post subject: Hessisch Oldendor 2009 |
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Hi,
my friend Bjoern Schewe has made a nice update of the cars that signed in for our show next year. I think that there will be some very nice cars and sone new records.
Christian
KDF beetle 2 cars
KDF Kubelwagen 12 cars
KDF Schwimmer 9 cars
Pre 49 splits 13 cars
normal split 96 cars
ovals 143 cars
Hebmuller 22 cars
split convertibles 16 cars
Oval convertibles 15 cars
Low light Karmann 32 cars
Karmann typ 14 8 cars
Karman typ 34 10 cars
T1 barndoors 39 cars
T1 busses 120 cars
Denzel 3 cars
Zelinsis 1 car
Thonfeld 1 car
VW typ 93 1 trailer
Rometsch 3 cars
Porsche 356 3 cars
and so on ! |
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David
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2004
Posts: 2027
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Amazing list!
I'm crossing my fingers that I'll be able to make it to this show next yr 
_________________
Cheers,
Dave
*October '54 Ragtop
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johnshenry 
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:58 am Post subject: |
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ONLY 22 Hebs, sheesh....... 
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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pbaptist
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2005
Posts: 1205
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Here is a virtual line-up of 31 of the 32 registered Lowlight ghia's.
Some of the convertibles needs to be finisched.
Convertibles
Nr 141: Knut Sommerstad:
Nr 182: Kenny Swayne: or
Nr 188: Josep Mª Penalva Padros:
Nr 207: John Figg:
Nr 216: Chris Carr:
Nr 351: Patrick Baptist:
Nr 361: Jan Møller Christiansen:
Nr 372: Kris Van den Eynde:
Nr 423: Dan Hughes:
Nr 427: Alfredo di Bella:
And hopefully Grundmann will bring his LL cab as well
Coupe's
Nr 8: Udo Dreisörner:
Nr 16: John Moxon:
Nr 77: Kevin McHale:
Nr 81: Rinie Roodbeen:
Nr 163: Christophe Cailloce: Car is from the samba member Panelvan, but Christophe will be driving it.
Nr 165: Michael Kruck:
Nr 168: Russell Williams:
Nr 228: Olivier Auvray:
Nr 284: Vilain Fabrice:
Nr 292: Kai Schilders:
Nr 310: Robert Schranz:
Nr 325: Inaki Barquin:
Nr 349: Michael Jansen:
Nr 358: Tómas Fjalldal:
Nr 384: Steve Wright:
Nr 402: Joachim Hess:
Nr 420: Gerard Dolfing:
Nr 423: Lutz Gaas:
Nr 456: Tobias Ludwig:
Nr 458: Margritta Menzzer-Klein:
Nr 481: Jorgen Mathiesen:
Nr 511: Thomas Ginsell:
Sorry, no picture
_________________
Dutch Karmann-Ghia and coachbuild lover.
1* Karmann Ghia Coupe (1966 Teak)
2* Karmann Ghia Convertible (1958, 1971)
4* Rometsch Lawrence (nr 534, 555, 558 and 561)
Karmann-Ghia Lowlight page and registry
Karmann-Ghia Collectibles database |
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belgianboxer
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2007
Posts: 280
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| pbaptist wrote: |
Here is a virtual line-up of 31 of the 32 registered Lowlight ghia's.
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 32 lowlight Ghia's...?!? I always thougt they were rare...
nice list anyway, HO 2009 is going to be the ultimate VW meeting 
see you there in June 2009,
Paul (participant nr.199)
http://www.uraltkaefer.de/teilnehmer.pl?lang=en |
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belgianboxer
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2007
Posts: 280
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| @KdFkid: please hire in the "Pied Piper" to keep the rats away (Hameln is nearby, isn't it?). It wouldn't surprise me that a whole bunch of them will swimm over the Channel for HO: http://www.volkszone.co.uk/VZi/showthread.php?t=504940 |
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KAMAX
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2003
Posts: 232
Location: Chartres - FRANCE
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:14 am Post subject: rats away |
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yehhhh keep the rats away !! from anywhere they come... not only GB... even if it's true they mostly camed from GB.
they have already destroyed BadCamberg spirit... don't let them do the same with Hessich.
the rules are simple. Vintage cars only. Why those idiots try to get in with their rats car and buses ? that kills the spirit of the show.
They are so many show all around they can go to. Why wanna come and display in Hesscih ?? Even if they are kept away from the show... they will wanna drive the rally also ?! that's going to be a mess !
Who is going to watch after the cars during the gala dinner ? if those drunck idiots are around.
Last time the repair trailer from BBT rally was busy with one of those not vintage car... what if a vintage car happened to need assistance ?
that kills me !
Alex |
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tazm
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2001
Posts: 530
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:10 am Post subject: Re: rats away |
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| KAMAX wrote: |
yehhhh keep the rats away !! from anywhere they come... not only GB... even if it's true they mostly camed from GB.
they have already destroyed BadCamberg spirit... don't let them do the same with Hessich.
the rules are simple. Vintage cars only. Why those idiots try to get in with their rats car and buses ? that kills the spirit of the show.
They are so many show all around they can go to. Why wanna come and display in Hesscih ?? Even if they are kept away from the show... they will wanna drive the rally also ?! that's going to be a mess !
Who is going to watch after the cars during the gala dinner ? if those drunck idiots are around.
Last time the repair trailer from BBT rally was busy with one of those not vintage car... what if a vintage car happened to need assistance ?
that kills me !
Alex |
X2 And the "BBT convoy" would also look better without those people 
Guido |
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eurodub
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2007
Posts: 1321
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:58 am Post subject: |
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i will try to be at Hessisch in 2009 too. as a spectator though, as i don't have a car for this kind of event yet.
one question... what is your definition of vintage? cars that are restored and shiny, correct in all aspects (or at least at a high percentage) or does a patina unrestored car qualifies as long as it is still bone stock? (not lowered, full of rust and useless, not period correct parts/accessories)
i have seen some pictures at Huckeswagen show and i remember seeing an oval standard original from bumper to bumper, unrestored... but unfortunately with lots of surface rust. i liked that car's originality and appearance.. and just wondered what the exact meaning of "vintage meeting" means to you people.
_________________
1960 1200 model 117 deluxe ragtop
1974 T2 Westfalia Campmobile
1976 MK1 Golf |
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belgianboxer
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2007
Posts: 280
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| eurodub wrote: |
one question... what is your definition of vintage? cars that are restored and shiny, correct in all aspects (or at least at a high percentage) or does a patina unrestored car qualifies as long as it is still bone stock? (not lowered, full of rust and useless, not period correct parts/accessories)
i have seen some pictures at Huckeswagen show and i remember seeing an oval standard original from bumper to bumper, unrestored... but unfortunately with lots of surface rust. i liked that car's originality and appearance.. and just wondered what the exact meaning of "vintage meeting" means to you people. |
Personally I think rust is not an issue, a car doesn’t have to look like new to be considered Vintage. In fact, an original paint VW with some patina can be considered even more “Vintage” then a fully restored car. To give you an idea of what I mean, here’s a picture of the 1948 unrestored ’48 that showed up at the Vintage Show in Lier(B) earlier this year:
 Definitely not a ‘”rat”, but truly “Vintage”…!!!
I think the HO team has pointed out clearly that only cars in original condition can participate in their event; on the English startpage , they have added in bold "no Rat Look please"...! I’m sure all official participants will respect that. However, I’m a bit worried that there will turn up a considerable amount of “rat tourists” too that weekend, hopefully I’m wrong…
The definition of what can be qualified as strictly Vintage may be difficult. Therefore I think it’s easier to say what is definitely not Vintage: lowered suspensions, tuned engines (except Okrasa or similar periodic extra-powered VW’s), custom rims, non-original VW colours, etc…
regards,
Paul |
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eurodub
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2007
Posts: 1321
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:12 am Post subject: |
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exactly as i thought...
preserved, unmolested cars are to me way more interesting that restored ones.
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1960 1200 model 117 deluxe ragtop
1974 T2 Westfalia Campmobile
1976 MK1 Golf |
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mrsherbie
Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2004
Posts: 338
Location: East Sussex UK
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:45 am Post subject: Re: rats away |
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| KAMAX wrote: |
even if it's true they mostly camed from GB.
they have already destroyed BadCamberg spirit... don't let them do the same with Hessich.
the rules are simple. Vintage cars only. Why those idiots try to get in with their rats car and buses ? that kills the spirit of the show.
They are so many show all around they can go to. Why wanna come and display in Hesscih ?? Even if they are kept away from the show... they will wanna drive the rally also ?! that's going to be a mess !
Who is going to watch after the cars during the gala dinner ? if those drunck idiots are around.
Alex |
You are 100% right with everything your say here. And sadly many British people attending car shows in Germany are now embarassed and ashamed to be 'Brits' after Camberg 
I tried to point this message out on the UK Splitscreen Van Club, and look what I got
http://www.ssvc.org.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=43156&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30
So the very same SBS members who posted attacking my comment on SSVC are from this UK club the 'Steering Box Scrapers' as you see from their own forum they have deliberately ignored the 'no ratlook' rule after it was discussed above, and registered their buses on the H.O. register no's 403, 442, 462, 465, 468, 470.
So it looks like they are coming anyway?
http://www.steeringboxscrapers.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3481&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
They obviously dont want to participate in the 'vintage spirit' do they? So why exactly do they want to go?
Tell me because I dont understand why?
_________________
Anna.
quote 50karmann " it'll wreck the patina you haven't worked so hard to create" |
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Rich's 50
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2004
Posts: 10781
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:01 am Post subject: |
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I would have love to show up in this but the timing aint right. but who's knows
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Brezelwerks
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2003
Posts: 1421
Location: Tyngsboro, MA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: Re: rats away |
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| mrsherbie wrote: |
| KAMAX wrote: |
even if it's true they mostly camed from GB.
they have already destroyed BadCamberg spirit... don't let them do the same with Hessich.
the rules are simple. Vintage cars only. Why those idiots try to get in with their rats car and buses ? that kills the spirit of the show.
They are so many show all around they can go to. Why wanna come and display in Hesscih ?? Even if they are kept away from the show... they will wanna drive the rally also ?! that's going to be a mess !
Who is going to watch after the cars during the gala dinner ? if those drunck idiots are around.
Alex |
You are 100% right with everything your say here. And sadly many British people attending car shows in Germany are now embarassed and ashamed to be 'Brits' after Camberg
I tried to point this message out on the UK Splitscreen Van Club, and look what I got
http://www.ssvc.org.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=43156&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30
So the very same SBS members who posted attacking my comment on SSVC are from this UK club the 'Steering Box Scrapers' as you see from their own forum they have deliberately ignored the 'no ratlook' rule after it was discussed above, and registered their buses on the H.O. register no's 403, 442, 462, 465, 468, 470.
So it looks like they are coming anyway?
http://www.steeringboxscrapers.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3481&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
They obviously dont want to participate in the 'vintage spirit' do they? So why exactly do they want to go?
Tell me because I dont understand why? |
Its important to acknowledge first that there is one united vintage spirit between all of us, nomatter how things look on the surface.
The challenge is trying to manage or preserve an even balance within the hobby so that folks of all kinds have their opportunities to express their vintage spirit and interests.
The problem today though is there are really a limited number of the more traditionally recognized vintage stock shows, and that the rat/rod look is no longer a subcultural curiousity numbers-wise worldwide now, not to mention that despite the more obviously recognized rat/rod features, there are also strong vintage/stock features on these vehicles.
So in a sense, pushing aside perhaps perceived cultural differences for a moment, some to most of these rat/rod hobbyists are also kindred spirits in the stock vintage hobby. If you look long enough you'll see it. If you listen long enough you'll sense a good number of these rat/rod folks aspire to also own a nice original or restored stock vw someday, and I've heard the opposite as well from some stock only enthusiasts as well. So this is why these folks want to attend the stock focused events, it just happens to be one of the better fit venues.
The hobby is growing, changing, aging, expanding, etc. all the time. I believe its healthy for the vintage hobby to be able to attract in new enthusiasts in all kinds of ways, and its healthy for us as individuals to find ways to leverage our commonality to make something even better than it once was. To some degree in means inviting in the unfamiliar or the uncomfortable for awhile until things settle in a bit as they always will, to accept change. So my suggestion anyways is embrace it, but do so in a well thought out and responsible way that encourages looking after the overall vintage hobby.
My suggestion therefore, to the larger traditional vintage show promoters is to remove the "no rat/rod" restriction, say for just the next year these shows come up. Offer up this opportunity for the rat/rod guys to gain some visible attention in the vintage hobby so that perhaps thereafter it will lead to encouraging someone within their particular niche to plan their own rather exclusive rat/rod only show, what would be better for the rat/rod crowd?
That said the show promoters will have more to do yes, may have to wrap in some cap/limits on the attendance/numbers just out of space considerations and for crowd management. But at least you do the right thing by acknowledging and respecting the fact that the hobby is changing noticeably in some ways. So by displaying some leadership here, instead of alienating each other, we take on a little more responsibility by helping these other niche areas of the hobby take root eventually out on their own thereafter.
Ultimately I believe the rat/rod folks would respect such an effort, and I don't believe they feel their best permanent fit is with the traditional stock vintage shows anyways. Therefore, if some of the vintage stock show promoters are up to sharing some show planning techniques to those interested in starting up their own rat/rod show thats all the better. The idea is to give the rat/rod folks their best advantage in reaching their potential.
We all have to find our ways in life but it helps when we're given some up front help. Therefore, as I see things it would be up to the rat/rod folks thereafter to make things happen. I look at this current division and I only see huge opportunity ahead on both sides. Someone is going to belly up and define this period in vw history, define their unique generation here, other shows will be born out of it, the business aspects and opportunities are many, and perhaps someone will eventually author up the vw rat-look book, etc etc.
Just a perspective to consider.
Gary |
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KAMAX
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2003
Posts: 232
Location: Chartres - FRANCE
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:25 am Post subject: rats... rats |
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rats is beautiful.
rats owner are nice guys.
we all love rats.
rats is part of the history of the hobbie.
let write a book on the rats...
what ever... gary ! stop this
rats owner are more than welcome in vintage show... as long as they don't come with their car... that ALL.
if the show was a "vintage and rats" show... then ok
if we let the rats in... why not the call look, the old school, the wathever you want... then it's no longer a vintage show.
let stop philosofical fact and see the reality.
Alex
Last edited by KAMAX on Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Camberg took a big hit IMO when they lowered the bar with cars like the "Devil Heb" being allowed to enter the grounds. There is "vintage" and then there is STUPID. Promoters might pre-screen the cars with a photo entry form and only accept those that meet whatever "stock" standard is determined. Refuse to allow in vendors whose reputation for fraud and deceit is well known to the vintage community. Let the abortions and crooks have there own show around the corner and downwind.
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"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do |
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mrsherbie
Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2004
Posts: 338
Location: East Sussex UK
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: |
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You are joking right Gary? 
I dont think you guys in the US are as swamped with this problem as we are here in Europe.
We dont drive 1000miles across Europe to a show in a very old car just to park with some guy in a ratrod. We can do that at home every weekend!! Camberg is sadly over because of that for many people. Its a vintage vw show, not a bloody communal love hippyfest!
Maybe you would feel differently if you had driven a car to last Camberg and witnessed some of what went on.
For the first time I disagree with you! 
BUT playing devils advocate, I also think it is too harsh to say no to all the buses, modified or not, for example the barndoor og paint boys are probably as hard core serious vw as anyone gets! And no doubt ALL barndoor buses should all be there, modified or not! But they get thrown in to this mix unfairly. Its the same old problem, a few of the wrong type of people who just happen to drive modified and or ratty vw's?
So how do you deter the wrong type? You have no choice but to generalise and exclude.
Or is Photo application the only way to stop people like the SBS guys?
As I pointed out on ssvc, stock people dont make trouble at shows!
Against my better judgement I am posting this pic to remind you what us Brits are capable of on the Camberg show field, yes, during the show weekend....still the same viewpoint now Gary?
(I have removed the photo out of respect for the H.O. organisers now we have all seen it, as we are talking about Camberg again)
_________________
Anna.
quote 50karmann " it'll wreck the patina you haven't worked so hard to create"
Last edited by mrsherbie on Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:19 am Post subject: |
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I don't really have an answer for screening out the "wrong" type cars or people, but a photo entry invitation is used by most concours shows. You send in your application based upon a series of photos and you receive an invitation if you meet the standard. You don't get in without an invitation. A promoter could also charge an "exorbitant" amount of money to enter the show grounds and then later "give" most of it back as "awards" to the owners of cars that meet those standards.
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"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do |
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ZwitterND
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2005
Posts: 1451
Location: Fargo, ND
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:49 am Post subject: |
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I agree Anna, that bike on the far right isn't even a VW !
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Bill |
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belgianboxer
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2007
Posts: 280
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: |
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 …oh boy, I just started with saying that the Pied Piper lives near Hessisch
Also, I never intented to hijack this topic… sorry for that 
My opinion...? I totally agree with Alex:
| KAMAX wrote: |
rats owner are more than welcome in vintage show... as long as they don't come with their car...
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Last edited by belgianboxer on Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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