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F-22A
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2008
Posts: 556
Location: London
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 Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:19 am Post subject: Batwing horn button variations |
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Any horn button experts out there?
This all began when I started looking for a replacement horn button for the 55. First one I was offered made me realise the design differed from the item fitted to my car which I believe to be original.
Anyone know why this is? Does it indicate different manufacturers or dates of manufacture or does it indicate the difference in Bug and Bus Batwing's?
Here the button fitted to my car
Here's one I was offered. As you can see, the wolf is a different design, as is the castle and water. The castle on my button is flared towards the bottom which is not the case with this one.
Here's one just posted in classifieds which is closer to the one above than mine but again looks to have slight variations. The wolf is deffo different.
Any ideas??? |
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Nessy
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2004
Posts: 424
Location: Wales,UK
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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The horn button on my '53 is definitely the same as on your '55; same style portcullis and ears on the wolf etc.....
I wonder if the button you have been offered and the Samba advert one have repro crests? Both of them look too 'new' to my (inexpert  ) eye...........
EDIT
I've now added some pics of mine..............
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1972 1302LS Convertible RHD
Last edited by Nessy on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Undis
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 1396
Location: Riga, Latvia & Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:09 am Post subject: |
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Here is one off my late '54 Swedish oval... if it's of any help.
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john7
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2003
Posts: 1542
Location: Garden grove ca
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:23 am Post subject: |
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the one in my 54 is like the one in your 55. i know its original
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Nessy
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2004
Posts: 424
Location: Wales,UK
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| Undis wrote: |
Here is one off my late '54 Swedish oval... if it's of any help.
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Are you sure that the crest is OG?
The centre and chrome rim looks brand-new yet the outer part of the horn button appears to have years of age-related wear?
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1972 1302LS Convertible RHD |
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F-22A
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2008
Posts: 556
Location: London
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:36 am Post subject: |
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This is an interesting one as you may think the design of the button changed in Aug 55 but then again so did the whole steering wheel so that theory doesn't work!
I guess the answer could be there was more than one supplier and this accounts for the differences? |
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IN2VWS
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2006
Posts: 2521
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:20 am Post subject: |
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1955 known original.
Click on images to see them full size.
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Undis
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 1396
Location: Riga, Latvia & Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| Nessy wrote: |
| Undis wrote: |
Here is one off my late '54 Swedish oval... if it's of any help.
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Are you sure that the crest is OG?
The centre and chrome rim looks brand-new yet the outer part of the horn button appears to have years of age-related wear?
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Not 100% sure as the car has passed through a few hands before I got it. In real life the button is less shiny and new looking and actually has some hairline cracks. Now that I compare it to what IN2VWS posted, there are some differnces. The porthole size in the upper part of the towers, and mine has more recognizable portholes also in the fouth brick from the ground. The wolf's eye on mine is almost non-visible, the legs are different, the tail less bushy etc.
Are there known reproductions of the button, or as stated previously, there were several manufacturers of these buttons?
edit: I would say this one and mine are identical
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ScrapJunkie
(O\U|U/O)
Joined: March 17, 2004
Posts: 3977
Location: Hutchinson, Kansas
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Kind of off topic..but how did Vw get the gold in there so perfectly? What is it?
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splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4094
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: |
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the clear plastic button has the crest molded in reverse. Then there was a gold paint applied to the crest and then the rest was painted black.
I removed all of it once with the plan of making a reproduction by casting them. The gold paint was kind of like a paste more than a paint. It came off pretty easily.
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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ScrapJunkie
(O\U|U/O)
Joined: March 17, 2004
Posts: 3977
Location: Hutchinson, Kansas
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| splitjunkie wrote: |
the clear plastic button has the crest molded in reverse. Then there was a gold paint applied to the crest and then the rest was painted black.
I removed all of it once with the plan of making a reproduction by casting them. The gold paint was kind of like a paste more than a paint. It came off pretty easily. |
Well, that's kind of the reason for the question. I have a friend working on reproducing a different type of horn button and we can't really figure out the gold. Is it really a paint? It seems waaay too reflective for that?
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 119
Location: Moody, TX 76557
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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use gold leaf, get it at Hobby Lobby, use "Q" Tip to get the leaf off the parts u don't want it, spray paint and u are done.
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1956 Oval back to original
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splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4094
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:06 am Post subject: |
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This is the one that was original to my '54.
My '50 came with the correct ivory horn ring housing but had a later zwitter through '55 crest button. Obviously it was not original to the car but as I remember it was a little different than the one in my '54. I still have the original '54 button that has had the gold and black paint removed but the other one replaced it in my '54 since it was in good shape and I sold that car 10 years ago.
I would say that there were at least two or three variations of the same button.
It is easiest to look at the tail. One leans to the left further and has pronounced wisps of fur on the right side of the tail. The other one is more upright has is less detailed.
Mine has 8 blocks on the center parapet with the center 4 having a pronounced bump out. I have not seen that on the others posted so far.
Mine is closest to the one IN2VWS posted but his does not have the bump out and the two end blocks on the center parapet are very narrow on his and are wide on mine.
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You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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F-22A
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2008
Posts: 556
Location: London
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Tks for that post Chris. This gets more and more interesting! |
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gunbab
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2008
Posts: 121
Location: Less Wood Belgium
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:03 am Post subject: |
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This is mine.
It is in a very good condition.
It seems to be original.
But what is the color of the housing???
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IN2VWS
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2006
Posts: 2521
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| gunlau wrote: |
This is mine.
It is in a very good condition.
It seems to be original.
But what is the color of the housing???
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What makes you say it is original?
Is the car a one owner car in original condition?
Have you owned the car long?
No disrespect, but it looks like a repro.
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gunbab
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2008
Posts: 121
Location: Less Wood Belgium
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:06 am Post subject: |
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When I dismanteld the horn button for repainting, I notice a number and the vw sign inside the housing.
The brezel has been rechromed.
About the push button, I´m not sure. I guess this is not a repro.
The backside of pushbutton has 4 circles
Maybe someone else could take a pic of the backside of the pushbutton.
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IN2VWS
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2006
Posts: 2521
Location: Australia
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Brezelwerks
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2003
Posts: 1421
Location: Tyngsboro, MA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Germanpride wrote: |
| splitjunkie wrote: |
the clear plastic button has the crest molded in reverse. Then there was a gold paint applied to the crest and then the rest was painted black.
I removed all of it once with the plan of making a reproduction by casting them. The gold paint was kind of like a paste more than a paint. It came off pretty easily. |
Well, that's kind of the reason for the question. I have a friend working on reproducing a different type of horn button and we can't really figure out the gold. Is it really a paint? It seems waaay too reflective for that? |
Have been through this reproduction process a few times now with the early and late oval hornbuttons we produce, the castle images were a vacuum metallized form of plating, expensive to do in small quantity, most shops won't touch handfuls, I've asked several, and the ones that will want excruciating amounts of money to do a few.
Generally the original plate will remove itself fairly easily from the plastic acrylic surface since its not truly a plate but more of a laminate which over 50 years loses alot of its original tenacity, which is why you see alot of originals with this stuff already flaking off the back. I went through 3-4 original hornbuttons of each variety until I could get one of each that would fully let go of its original plating. On the later oval hornbuttons they really backfilled the original image alot more, which intentionally or not really prevents the flaking from occurring.
I developed a sort of gold paste out of a bright gold enamel with added in gold flake, it gets close to the original finish, check my ads and see what you think, its not quite as brilliant as a flat plate will produce but it will pass for original. The reason, the case of these castle images if you look closely you will notice that the image is fairly textured, therefore a brilliant gold enamel will look very very close to the original plating since its an uneven surface. Its a little different on the wolf and moat/water sections since those are flatter images, but the consistency of the enamel sets a nice even tone quality for the image. Good luck with the project Germanpride.
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mrsherbie
Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2004
Posts: 338
Location: East Sussex UK
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| Brezelwerks wrote: |
| I went through 3-4 original hornbuttons of each variety until I could get one of each that would fully let go of its original plating. |
You are magic you know
So much so that I will even forgive you for making the devils hornpush!  
ps. When are you going to write a book?!
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quote 50karmann " it'll wreck the patina you haven't worked so hard to create" |
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