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Stephan Schmidt
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 213
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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 Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:11 pm Post subject: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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Thanks for the click! 
I'm starting this thread as I'd love to track my Westy build progress and share it with all of you!
My Westy history goes as follows:
Back in 2002-03 I completed my high school work experience at a well known local German VW/Audi repair shop close to home where I fell more in love with the VW brand.
They worked on A LOT of Vanagons and Eurovans there. Eventually I was GIVEN an all original 1987 hightop automatic Westy from a customer, but it was VERY VERY rusty and worn out. Lots of driveline leaks, blown engine, auto trans was on its way out, roof leaked, etc. etc.. but it was a one owner van. I went back and forth with what to do with it and since I was still young and without much money, I was convinced to scrap it by my co-workers.  I didn't know much about the values of the van until YEARS later.
Fast forward to Feb. 2016 and my interest the the T3's began again. I was searching for something within my budget and a 1982 tintop diesel for $800 came along. It was cheap enough, so I thought, why not! After realizing it was not worth dumping a ton of money into, its been side lined as very useful parts van. I sold off the diesel bits, tramission and a few other items so I'm into the van for about $100. Why not keep it for that price right?? 
Original Build thread of old Diesel Tintop Van - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647111&highlight=
In about May of 2016 i found a decent 1983.5 Westfalia that needed a clutch. It was the right price and FINALLY I was in a westy!
And here is how it sits now:
The 83 is great and i love it, but i randomly found a 1982 Westy Diesel sitting in front of a neighbors house which was completely rust free!!! I knocked on the door and a few months later this dry 1982 California bus was mine. I'll be selling the 1983 Westy as soon as the weather warms up a bit and I sure am glad to have the 82 tintop for parts.
In the works (most parts already purchased and ready to be installed) are:
2L inline ABA swap with FAS engine cradle
Waterboxer transmission & shifter linkage swap
16" Tiguan steel wheels with 215/65r16 tires
Bilstein shocks, stacked rear spring pads with a possibility of slightly stiffer Zero lift springs in the future
Burley Motorsports heavy duty rear hitch for use with stock bumpers
GW Fridge elimination kit
Propane tank to 1lb propane bottle conversion (propane tank looks original and it needs to be replaced and I've never liked the look of the tank hanging down on the left side anyways).
And that's about it for now!
Here is how I found it after sitting for a few years:
And this is what it looks like today:
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Stephan Schmidt
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 213
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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Here is the ABA block torn right down (you can see my other automotive love in the back ground):
Rebuilt cylinder head on with new timing belt & FAS engine cradle bars installed. Exhaust manifold is a tubular 4 into 2 design from an AEG MK4.
This manifold was chosen in case I ever decide on a low-mid range aftermarket cam which will need to breath a little better. It also has an O2 sensor port in it which will eliminate the need to weld a bung into the exhaust system (going to run OBD1 management).
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Turbod16v
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2016
Posts: 156
Location: beaver twp, PA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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Will follow this!
I to am going to be doing a diesel to aba swap. Got a 83 5spd diesel westy.
Curiouse as to why your using the FAS stuff instead of just your stock diesel bars and trans bell housing?
_________________
1971 westy tin top that got a 74 up pop top bolted on |
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Stephan Schmidt
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 213
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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| Turbod16v wrote: |
Will follow this!
I to am going to be doing a diesel to aba swap. Got a 83 5spd diesel westy.
Curiouse as to why your using the FAS stuff instead of just your stock diesel bars and trans bell housing? |
Good question. I've chosen the FAS parts for a number of reasons:
1. Since my van is a 1982 and the trans is modeled after the early aircooled cars, I'd like to upgrade to the "better" WBX transmission and shifter linkage that your 83 diesel van and all 83+ WBX's share. The shifter design is superior and there are certain parts which are NLA for the early diesel / aircooled transmissions which imo makes the van unreliable. I also prefer the R&P in the WBX trans for the power band of the 2L ABA.
2. The WBX trans' mounting position sits further forward in the chassis, so my stock 82 bars won't work without modifications.
3. The engine mounts for the 1982 bars are NLA and there are no simple bolt in mounts to replace them.
4. The bars for both the 82 and 83 diesels don't allow the ABA crossflow intake manifold to sit below the decklid. Its either modify the bars or notch the decklid affecting the mattress (I want everything to function as it was intended without a hump in the lid).
5. Everyone who has done the inline 4 cylinder conversion using stock diesel 82 or 83 bars end up with driveline vibration at certain RPM's. I've spoken with a lot of people and no matter what they've done (aside from custom mounts), say there is vibration. Its also typically in the 2800-3500 RPM which means I'll feel on the hwy and there is nothing better than a westy and a road trip!
6. The FAS kit uses hydro mounts from a newer Passat or Audi which are readily available for replacement.
7. I'll be able to sell off the diesel bits for about 1/2 of the cost of the FAS cradle system which makes it more affordable.
8. I'm not a fabricator and paying someone to modify my stock bars would cost me more than purchasing the FAS kit.
...PHEW!!!! LOL
I've put TOO much thought into this and IMO its the best way to go! The trans adapter I'll be using is the Kennedy one as I purchased it ahead of time and it is 1/2 the price of the FAS one. I like the FAS adapter better as there is a way to access the bell housing with a small removable window, however I got measurements of both adapters and there was a 7mm difference in thickness. I'll just need to move the cradle system 7mm (kennedy is 14mm thick and FAS is 21mm I believe) closer than their instructions and then I'll be good to go! This will also allow me to use the larger 228mm stock vanagon clutch over the smaller 215mm diesel one. Starters for the WBX transmissions are easy to find where as the diesel ones are not. A low boost supercharged or turbo charger system might find its way into the mix, so I want to be ready for that. And again, stock 228mm clutches are easy to find, diesel van ones are not.
Again, I've thought about it a lot  |
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erste
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2013
Posts: 1110
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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ABA is a great engine. Any reason for not going OBDII?
Looking forward to seeing your progress on the swap, should move pretty quickly considering how prepared you are! |
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Stephan Schmidt
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 213
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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| erste wrote: |
ABA is a great engine. Any reason for not going OBDII?
Looking forward to seeing your progress on the swap, should move pretty quickly considering how prepared you are! |
Ease of wiring, my donor car was an obd1, and in Canada obd1 was used on mk3's from 1993-early 1997, and obd2 for only mid-97-early 1999.
It would be nice to plug in a scan tool with obd2, but I love the simplicity of obd1. Only 1 oxygen sensor and no vss to worry about.
I'm very excited to finish this swap! |
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VWinVT
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2013
Posts: 1541
Location: North East Kingdom
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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I converted my 81 aircooled to an ABA FROM A '01 Cabrio. Mine is a very basic swap, but I am very happy with the motor. It is efficient, reliable and has enough power to make fully loaded travel enjoyable. Looking forward to reading about your progress!
_________________
1981 Westfalia with a 2001 Cabrio ABA
Small wheel turns by the firing rod,
Big wheel turns by the grace of God.
Every time that wheel turns 'round,
You're bound to cover just a little more ground. |
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Stephan Schmidt
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 213
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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| VWinVT wrote: |
| I converted my 81 aircooled to an ABA FROM A '01 Cabrio. Mine is a very basic swap, but I am very happy with the motor. It is efficient, reliable and has enough power to make fully loaded travel enjoyable. Looking forward to reading about your progress! |
I've followed your thread and I liked what I saw!
I'll have more hp and torque than a 2.1 wbx in a much lighter basic westy (no ps, cruise, power options, removed lpg tank etc..), so it should move along perfectly fine.
The 1.9l in the 83 was fine for my family camping last summer, so I'm sure this will do much better!!  |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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I certainly don't care at all what conversion parts you use, but figure I'll add a couple cents for anyone reading this in the future.
| Stephan Schmidt wrote: |
| 2. The WBX trans' mounting position sits further forward in the chassis, so my stock 82 bars won't work without modifications. |
You can easily modify the later trans nose mount by flipping it around and notching it a little for clearance. Very easy modification and then the carrier bars work fine. You then can shorten linkage rod by ~1-3/8" and you're done. No modification to the carrier bars necessary.
I can't imagine that converting to hydro mounts would cost more than the FAS kit or even 1/2 the cost of the kit.
The diesel starters and clutch components are readily available as are upgraded clutches. Going to 228mm using the TDI flywheel and PP with the WBX 228 disc is one way. Adding the TDI input shaft and using any of the plethora of TDI clutch kits available is another.
You will have better peak torque and peak HP but those numbers only have meaning at their specific rpms. Have you compared the dyno charts of a stock 2.1 WBX and a stock ABA? Without having done so but having driven both in vanagons, I imagine the WBX will do better for rpms below 4,000. I might be wrong. Regardless, the ABA will do better than a 1.9 WBX. |
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Stephan Schmidt
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 213
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:37 pm Post subject: Re: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
I certainly don't care at all what conversion parts you use, but figure I'll add a couple cents for anyone reading this in the future.
| Stephan Schmidt wrote: |
| 2. The WBX trans' mounting position sits further forward in the chassis, so my stock 82 bars won't work without modifications. |
You can easily modify the later trans nose mount by flipping it around and notching it a little for clearance. Very easy modification and then the carrier bars work fine. You then can shorten linkage rod by ~1-3/8" and you're done. No modification to the carrier bars necessary.
I can't imagine that converting to hydro mounts would cost more than the FAS kit or even 1/2 the cost of the kit.
The diesel starters and clutch components are readily available as are upgraded clutches. Going to 228mm using the TDI flywheel and PP with the WBX 228 disc is one way. Adding the TDI input shaft and using any of the plethora of TDI clutch kits available is another.
You will have better peak torque and peak HP but those numbers only have meaning at their specific rpms. Have you compared the dyno charts of a stock 2.1 WBX and a stock ABA? Without having done so but having driven both in vanagons, I imagine the WBX will do better for rpms below 4,000. I might be wrong. Regardless, the ABA will do better than a 1.9 WBX. |
Thanks for your input and that's some good info!
The modification of the trans mount and linkage is another reason I'm going the route I am. The way you're suggesting would still leave you with a vibration issue and inferior mounts that are 30+ years old or having to modify your exsisting bars to work with a more modern mount. Would you then have room for a dual outlet manifold or a turbo aba setup in the future? Too tight with the stock diesel mounts in sure.
So I sell my diesel parts for let's say $500, then buy the Fas mount system for $1000. Do you think $500 more would allow a competent fabricator to build a show quality mount system out of my stock bars plus the new mounts, then power coating, stainless hardware, etc..? I'd say you'd be hard pressed to do so. Then could you guarantee a tried tested and true trouble free system without vibration? Nope! The fas cradle has been proven.
I don't agree with the diesel starter statement. the starter needs to be something that if I'm stuck in a remote area, even the smallest auto parts store would be able to order it.
I don't believe the 228 mm clutch setup fits into a diesel 50 degree bell housing without modification?? Again, i'm trying to avoid this. even if it's a simple clearancing mod, the complete wbx transmissions are available in abundance and makes transmission replacement, rebuilding, ordering etc.. a breeze.
I don't know about the states, but in Vancouver bc Canada where I live most auto parts stores don't even list a 82/83 diesel van let alone stock parts for the driveline. I work as a parts manager for a larger VW dealership and I can find components for the Wbx drivelines all day long. Local vendors to me are auto camping, lordco, altrom, world PAC, vw of course, cip1.ca, etc.. and the later model parts are all readily available from my sources which in my eyes makes the van more attractive.
The above mentioned comment is also why I've chosen the aba angine for my conversion. The power bands are different than the 2.1l water boxer, namely that the torque does come in a bit later in the aba, however it has more hp and torque all across the poweband. You can also rev these Aba engines with ease and they sing reliably for miles and miles in the higher rpm ranges where the wbxer engines fall flat. With the right wheel and tire combo, r&p and trans gearing, you won't even notice a difference. Still working on those numbers for my trans build.
Turbo charging or super charging is also not an option with the Wbx, where as the aba has lots of options right off the shelf.
You make some valid points. However, I want this van to use as many unmodified Oem components as possible and high quality after market conversion pieces where the Oem parts can't fill the void.
Last edited by Stephan Schmidt on Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Stephan Schmidt
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 213
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:51 pm Post subject: Re: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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Edit:
2.1l Wbx 117 max torque @3200 rpm
2.0l Aba 122 max torque @3200 rpm
Seems that if you drive both, the aba would make more torque and hp all across the rev range, so your point about the 2.1l feeling more powerful than the Aba might have been becuase of a tired engine (possibly??). Lots of factors can contribute to it, however all things being the same the Wbx doesn't win on paper. |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10367
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:35 am Post subject: Re: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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Good to see your progress Stephan. Engine is looking good!
Neil, formerly of the oak street garage locale.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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Stephan Schmidt
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 213
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:55 am Post subject: Re: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Good to see your progress Stephan. Engine is looking good!
Neil, formerly of the oak street garage locale. |
Thanks Neil! It's coming along! |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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My only experience with an inline gasser van is with a 1.8L from a Mk2, and it felt exactly like the 2.1 in my Bluestar; though it did rev higher. My buddy is currently building a Franken-ABA for a client from an older Tiico kit, so he'll use a rebuilt counter-flow head from that engine. I'm really impressed with the ABA, due to the forged crank and piston squirters. I've forgotten the specs, but he's building it to produce more torque lower in the RPM range. Based upon VWinVT's build, I'm convinced that the ABA is the value leader in the entry level gasser engine swaps for these vans. The fact that they lend themselves to boosting via turbo is a nice benefit, as well. Good luck with the build.
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Stephan Schmidt
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 213
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| My only experience with an inline gasser van is with a 1.8L from a Mk2, and it felt exactly like the 2.1 in my Bluestar; though it did rev higher. My buddy is currently building a Franken-ABA for a client from an older Tiico kit, so he'll use a rebuilt counter-flow head from that engine. I'm really impressed with the ABA, due to the forged crank and piston squirters. I've forgotten the specs, but he's building it to produce more torque lower in the RPM range. Based upon VWinVT's build, I'm convinced that the ABA is the value leader in the entry level gasser engine swaps for these vans. The fact that they lend themselves to boosting via turbo is a nice benefit, as well. Good luck with the build. |
Nice to know and thanks!
It's too bad that a lot of people overlook these swaps. With the complete FAS kit that is available it's an attractive package. I know there are suby, bostig and 1.8t swaps, but I'm not interested in cross breading other brands into my vw. I want it to look like vw built it, and the 1.8t's are just SUCH busy engines that as an employee of a vw dealership, those engines mafs, turbos, cam chain tensioners, etc... all eventually fail and aren't the cheapest to repair. The aba is a stout engine with almost no known issues. |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10367
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| .... I'm really impressed with the ABA, due to the forged crank and piston squirters. |
FWIW, the 97 obd2 ABA I recently rebuilt had no oil squirters though obviously had the metal there ready for drilling and tapping. For most folks, adding them would likely be a pricey proposition. Money better spent on an external oil cooler?
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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Stephan Schmidt
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 213
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| .... I'm really impressed with the ABA, due to the forged crank and piston squirters. |
FWIW, the 97 obd2 ABA I recently rebuilt had no oil squirters though obviously had the metal there ready for drilling and tapping. For most folks, adding them would likely be a pricey proposition. Money better spent on an external oil cooler? |
I believe only early Canadian or all us market obd1 engines had the forged crank, oil squirters and dual valve springs. Canada got obd1 aba engines and electrics till early 1997 and US was 1995 I believe.
Do you really think these engines need external oil coolers? I'm going to be running a stock one, although new, I think it should be fine with the 5w40 synthetic I'll be running. Thoughts??? |
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vw4life
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2005
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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I don't think you need an oil cooler. If you pump the compression ratio up, yes. Personally, I think external coolers are another source for leaks or can be a bandaid for another problem.
The early ABA's should have forged internals if I remember correctly, meaning you can boost them.
I have seen a few other ABA vans, none running coolers and most were in So Cal/AZ.
I like the FAS stuff also. I really was torn to go subaru or ABA but the power from the subaru 2.5 and the cost for a 1.8T really made the decision for me.
Awesome build photos so far. Following! |
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Stephan Schmidt
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 213
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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| vw4life wrote: |
I don't think you need an oil cooler. If you pump the compression ratio up, yes. Personally, I think external coolers are another source for leaks or can be a bandaid for another problem.
The early ABA's should have forged internals if I remember correctly, meaning you can boost them.
I have seen a few other ABA vans, none running coolers and most were in So Cal/AZ.
I like the FAS stuff also. I really was torn to go subaru or ABA but the power from the subaru 2.5 and the cost for a 1.8T really made the decision for me.
Awesome build photos so far. Following! |
Good to know about the oil cooler.
The later coat cranks do fine till over 400 whp, so it's really
not an issue. My very good friend used to own the 1998 gti aba which was the turbo test car for the former kinetic motorsports. it went stage 1, 1.5, 2, 3 and 3+ making just around 350 whp. Stock cast obd2 crank and it held up fine. In fact, my other buddy brad now hill climbs the car regularity and built up a spare obd1 block with the forged crank as a spare, but he has yet to use it.
For me the decision was based on reliability, cost, staying with the vw brand, and that I've basically gotten everything except the Kennedy and FAS parts for free from friends in the vw industry or through work. |
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VWinVT
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2013
Posts: 1541
Location: North East Kingdom
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: 1982 Vanagon Westfalia Diesel to 2L Inline Gas build thread |
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As I mentioned I am super happy with my ABA. I didn't know there are super chargers for these motors until this thread. I was looking at the Neuspeed unit last night and it claims to boost HP to 140, and it looks to be a rather straightforward bolt on job. Quite sure my diesel exhaust would be very unhappy with this addition, however. Looking forward to your exhaust setup, I saved my stock ABA manifold for a future exhaust redesign project.
_________________
1981 Westfalia with a 2001 Cabrio ABA
Small wheel turns by the firing rod,
Big wheel turns by the grace of God.
Every time that wheel turns 'round,
You're bound to cover just a little more ground. |
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