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voltage stabilizer pins don't line up?
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Home Team Van
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:34 am    Post subject: voltage stabilizer pins don't line up? Reply with quote

The one on the left is the one I took out of my 82 diesel westy and it fit perfectly. the pins on the new don't line up with the foil. Has anyone else run into this? Do I just try to carefully bend them to fit. The vendor simply said that's how they're made now and couldn't offer any advice. Thanks for any and all info.


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stevey88
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The standard TO220 package has straight pins. Just bend the pins so it looks like the old one will do. The pin-out for 3-pin voltage regulators are standard as long as the are the same polarity, in our case, positive regulators.
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presslab
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's very common in the electronics industry to bend component pins, especially on those kinds of packages. Using some needle nosed pliers carefully bend the pins, it will be fine.
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Home Team Van
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks. I gave that a try and was able to get it in. However the gas gauge doesn't work at all now where as before it worked until I turned on the lights. Once I would turn on the lights the gas gauge would go up to 3/4 full and the temp light would blink. I put the old volt stab back in and still no gas gauge. Geez, I was better off before. Any ideas what I should be looking for? The foil seems to be ok. My volt meter is at a friend's house so I can't even check the volt stab right now. As always any info is appreciated.
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stevey88
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like you have a ground problem. The old regulator may still be good. Don't have the bently close by at the moment, but from memory try this. With the panel out of the car, measure the resistance between the ground of the input connector foil ( pin 3 ?. lease check and the other end of the resistor that is connected to the center pin of the regulator. they should be zero ohm. I think you gauge used to work some what because the regulator was grounding though the panel lights which are in parallel with the side light. When you switch on the light, 12V goes to the panel lights so you loose the ground. Does turning the panel dimmer control has effect on the reading of your gauges?
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Home Team Van
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevey88 wrote:
Looks like you have a ground problem. The old regulator may still be good. Don't have the bently close by at the moment, but from memory try this. With the panel out of the car, measure the resistance between the ground of the input connector foil ( pin 3 ?. lease check and the other end of the resistor that is connected to the center pin of the regulator. they should be zero ohm. I think you gauge used to work some what because the regulator was grounding though the panel lights which are in parallel with the side light. When you switch on the light, 12V goes to the panel lights so you loose the ground. Does turning the panel dimmer control has effect on the reading of your gauges?


thanks Stevey. If I'm reading the manual correctly it looks like #2 and #5 are grounds for an 82.
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For your 87 it is #3 so your memory is still intact. Smile So I just touch the test leads to either of the two spots I've marked on the photo and the negative pin on the volt stabilizer to measure the resistance?
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I'll try that and see what I get. I haven't noticed the dimmer having any effect but I'll check that too. Thanks again for walking me thru this. I appreciate it.
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stevey88
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So I just touch the test leads to either of the two spots I've marked on the photo and the negative pin on the volt stabilizer to measure the resistance?


That's correct. Also measure from the connector to chassis to make sure the wire to the grounding point on the chassis is OK.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, so I measured from the #2 and #5 grounds on the foil to the negative pin on the volt stabilizer and their was no resistance( zero ohm) for each. I tested the volt stabilizer voltage with key turned on and it was 9.9-10.0 so it's in spec. From the #2 pin and #5 pin on the white plastic connector to grounds also measured at zero ohms. I have the blue LED's in my cluster so I never really use the dimmer but as I moved it around some today the temp gauge did blink once or twice. The engine had only been running for a min or two so I know it wasn't overheating as it's 45 degrees out. Should I check anything related to #8 the fuel gauge sender? Thanks for the ongoing advice!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

Do you use a digital multimeter ? DVM usually do not give you zero ohms if you use the lowest ohm settings. If DVM is used, is it an auto ranging DVM ? Make sure you are using the lowest ohm setting if it is manual range setting.

Now measure ( ignition on ) the voltage from one of the terminals of the fuel gauge to ground ( touching the black lead of the meter to the chassis is OK and is easier ). One of the terminals should read 10V - the output of the voltage regulator. The other terminal is to the fuel gauge sensor, which is a variable resistor to ground. If the fuel level is high, the resistance is lower. According to the Bently, I am guessing the value for empty is 560 ohms and for full is 55 ohms. This is the VW1301 tester setting in Bently.

Now switch off and measure the resistance from this terminal to ground, It should have a resistance between these two values ,depend how full your tank is. If it is open circuit, or have a value higher than 560 ohms, measure from the connector to see if the problem is the foil contact or is the wire/sender problem.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I'm using a DVM. I've now changed the setting to the lowest level.

The #2 ground read about 24.8 and the #5 ground read 25.0 from the foil to the NEG pin on the volt stabilizer.

From the plastic connector to chassis GRND the #2 pin read around 25.0 but the #5 read 1.7.

with the IGN on, one terminal of the fuel gauge read 10v as you said it would.

With IGN off, I measured the other terminal,fuel gauge sensor, for resistance and got a value of 90 ohm. I believe I had over half a tank of gas according to the gauge before this whole problem occurred.

I checked the plastic connector #8 for resistance and got around 90ohms as well.

Thanks Steve.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the Bently, there is a resistor from the neg pin of the REG to ground this is probably 25 ohms according to your reading. The resistor may have the color bands red/green/black and a metallic band.

1.5 ohm is a bit high for ground. What is the DVM reading when you touch the two test lead together?

Pin 2 connection is not shown on the schematic but pin 5 is the ground for the REG and the instrument panel lights.

Quote:
Once I would turn on the lights the gas gauge would go up to 3/4 full and the temp light would blink. I put the old volt stab back in and still no gas gauge.


Your previous problem with the half working fuel gauge is pointing to the ground problem. Once the panel light is on, current is flowing through the ground wire and " lift " the voltage of ground at the panel. The 10V at the REg output is no longer 10V as the neg pin is higher than ground. The REG will set the voltage between its output and it ground - center pin, to 10V. Now if the ground is higher than 0 volt, the output will be 10V plus whatever the center pin voltage is. If the 10V become, say, 11V, the reading of the gauge(s) will be higher.

Something happened when you changed the REG as you now has no reading on the fuel gauge at all. What is the voltage across the fuel gauge when the ignition is on ? what is the voltage from the terminal of the fuel gauge that is connected to the resistor to ground ( should be a few volts but not 10V ).
If there is a few volts across the gauge and no gauge movement, the gauge is bad.

Note that the resistance reading from the terminal that reads 90 ohms may include the temperature gauge ( if you have one )reading as you have not disconnected the temp gauge. Don't want you to break your 26 years old flex PCB.

Was the instrument panel disconnected when you get the 90ohm reading from the plug ( measuring resistance of the sender )?

Be very CAREFUL as there is no fuse for the instrument panel.[/quote]
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grounding sounds like the heart of this for sure. Pin 5 is the ground "in" pin and Pin 2 is the ground "out" pin shown 2 pages deeper into the diagram. My fix for these issues is to isolate the original shared ground to a direct separate and redundant cluster ground.

Cut the BROWN wires to pins 2 and 5 about 3" from the 14 pin connector. Splice the 2 long brown wire ends together and let them be. Then join the two 3" brown leads together and extend them with a piece of wire to a grounding screw nearby.

This turns the silly ground pass through pin 2 into a redundant pin to help pin 5 with grounding the cluster. Doing this with a new piece of wire to a screw removes the other items from the sensitive cluster ground.

Mark


stevey88 wrote:
According to the Bently, there is a resistor from the neg pin of the REG to ground this is probably 25 ohms according to your reading. The resistor may have the color bands red/green/black and a metallic band.

1.5 ohm is a bit high for ground. What is the DVM reading when you touch the two test lead together?

Pin 2 connection is not shown on the schematic but pin 5 is the ground for the REG and the instrument panel lights.

Quote:
Once I would turn on the lights the gas gauge would go up to 3/4 full and the temp light would blink. I put the old volt stab back in and still no gas gauge.


Your previous problem with the half working fuel gauge is pointing to the ground problem. Once the panel light is on, current is flowing through the ground wire and " lift " the voltage of ground at the panel. The 10V at the REg output is no longer 10V as the neg pin is higher than ground. The REG will set the voltage between its output and it ground - center pin, to 10V. Now if the ground is higher than 0 volt, the output will be 10V plus whatever the center pin voltage is. If the 10V become, say, 11V, the reading of the gauge(s) will be higher.

Something happened when you changed the REG as you now has no reading on the fuel gauge at all. What is the voltage across the fuel gauge when the ignition is on ? what is the voltage from the terminal of the fuel gauge that is connected to the resistor to ground ( should be a few volts but not 10V ).
If there is a few volts across the gauge and no gauge movement, the gauge is bad.

Note that the resistance reading from the terminal that reads 90 ohms may include the temperature gauge ( if you have one )reading as you have not disconnected the temp gauge. Don't want you to break your 26 years old flex PCB.

Was the instrument panel disconnected when you get the 90ohm reading from the plug ( measuring resistance of the sender )?

Be very CAREFUL as there is no fuse for the instrument panel.
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