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Muftobration Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2014 Posts: 89 Location: Acton, MA
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:24 pm Post subject: Lower control arm hack job. What should I do now? |
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I'm finally getting around to doing some front suspension work on my '85 Westy (mfg date 09/84). I got the full Powerflex bushing kit from t3technique and began taking things apart, starting with the radius rods. I realized my van is one of the last with the old style radius rods that bolt to the bottom of the lower control arm with bolts going through the whole arm, so I started unbolting those. That's when I found trouble. Here's the passenger's side:
Notice it looks like someone drilled a new hole offset from the original location. The two bolts pictured look original, but the third bolt (removed) was different and installed upside down with the nut on top.
Things got worse on the driver's side. Check this out:
Small imperial (9/16") bolts with huge washers under them. Okay, maybe someone broke a bolt and replaced it with something they had lying around. But wait. Look from the side:
The forward bolt looks like it's slipping off the top surface! After unbolting the nut and hammering it upwards, I noticed something obvious I missed before:
The bolt is sticking through!
I'm trying to find the name of this part that receives the lower ball joint and bolts into the lower control arm. Please tell me if you know. The Bentley doesn't label it that I can see.
I'm not sure how I should proceed now. I'm worried if I take out the bolts (they're quite stuck) I won't get them back in and will not be able to reassembly anything until I can source new parts. But I'm not sure what I need to replace yet. I'm hoping the lower control arms can be welded, but that other part looks butchered. _________________ 1985 Westfalia full camper - Bostig v2.0 with several updates |
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10333 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: Lower control arm hack job. What should I do now? |
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AFAIK, those bolts holding rod to LCA never really need to be removed. Trying to turn the original rusted in place bolts can result in a head snapped off. BTDT. No fun. I'd guess the PO ran into the same issue.
The radius rod should eventually separate from lower control arms. I applied penetrating fluid and worked my way around the join with a cold chisel to help get the rods off arm. From the factory, the nuts on those bolts are an "always replace" item; they're lock nuts.
The Bentley diagram should show this part name but the part connecting lower ball joint to arm is called 'lower ball joint adaptor' IIRC. For sure the word "adaptor" is in description.
At minimum, get good used adaptors. If it was me, I'd find a parts van and try to get a good low price on radius rod, LCA, knuckle, remove those as "one piece" then install arms with adaptors.
Neil. _________________ 1981 Westy, 15º ABA
1988 West, 50º ABA
Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh
VE7TBN |
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vanis13 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010 Posts: 3079 Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: Lower control arm hack job. What should I do now? |
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Muftobration wrote: |
That's when I found trouble. |
I had to remove those same bolts for exactly the same reason. what a bummer
keep in mind it wasn't trouble before you found it. if a fix to original becomes difficult, just put it back together and try to forget about it until parts become available to you. you'd be driving it happily if you didn't know. .....and from an engineering point of view, it is likely to be just fine. _________________ 83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
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Mateo83 Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2021 Posts: 589 Location: Lodi, CA
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:35 am Post subject: Re: Lower control arm hack job. What should I do now? |
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Did you need advise or just wanted to smear the previous owner? _________________ 83 Air-cooled 2.0 Tin Top |
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Muftobration Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2014 Posts: 89 Location: Acton, MA
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Lower control arm hack job. What should I do now? |
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Thank you, Neil and vanis13. I used the term "lower ball joint adapter" and found this VW parts page, which calls it a "ball joint retainer (lower)". Looks like I can buy a new left-side version for $57.60, so that's not too bad. I am surprised but somewhat relieved nobody had as strong a reaction as I did to the fact that the bolt is visible out the side of the ball joint retainer.
I think I'll take both of your advice here:
Vanagon Nut wrote: |
At minimum, get good used adaptors. If it was me, I'd find a parts van and try to get a good low price on radius rod, LCA, knuckle, remove those as "one piece" then install arms with adaptors. |
vanis13 wrote: |
keep in mind it wasn't trouble before you found it. if a fix to original becomes difficult, just put it back together and try to forget about it until parts become available to you. you'd be driving it happily if you didn't know. .....and from an engineering point of view, it is likely to be just fine. |
It has been holding up well for the past 20k miles that I've owned it. I'll put this area back together and skip the radius rod bushings for now. They look okay. I was planning to upgrade to big brakes at some point, so I'll need the late model spindles anyway. I may as well look for a complete lower control arm with spindle and radius arm and swap it all out at once, then do all those bushings. I'll do the upper control arm bushings and upper ball joints now.
Thanks! _________________ 1985 Westfalia full camper - Bostig v2.0 with several updates |
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mtnhome Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 484 Location: Summit County, CO
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10333 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Lower control arm hack job. What should I do now? |
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I'm surprised to see that a LBJ adaptor is available. I see one here as well:
https://shop.bus-service-bodensee.de/VW-T3-Traggelenkaufnahme-Blechquerlenker-Links
Though I'm an amateur wrench at best, and had less skills at that time, I found it "impossible" to drill out the broken remainder of factory bolts at adaptor. (can't recall if I tried using a drill press or not). It's possible a PO of your van ran into the same issue. To my eye, it appears that damaged hole is drilled too close to OD of adaptor. Another hole shown also appears to have been drilled off to one side of OE bolt metal.
Once you improve the front end, if the brakes are in good shape, you may find braking and handling of OE design to be ok. This is what I found. I have NOS SA brakes, used later spindles etc slated for that van, still in boxes.
Neil.
Rereading my old web 2007 pages on this: (take it all with a grain of salt):
https://sites.google.com/site/tubaneil2/frontsuspension
I see that I snapped off a nut at one bolt. I recall trying to turn bolts at heads but stopped as doing so felt "wrong". I was grateful to have had spare LCA's etc on hand. I did not re use the LBJ adaptor and LCA shown.
proof that the LCA etc can be removed in "one piece"
_________________ 1981 Westy, 15º ABA
1988 West, 50º ABA
Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh
VE7TBN |
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