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DIY BIG brake kits - May 2009 edit
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Interested?
Yes.
90%
 90%  [ 128 ]
No.
8%
 8%  [ 12 ]
I'm a brake kit retailer & hate your guts.
1%
 1%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 142

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BlackDogVan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:38 pm    Post subject: DIY BIG brake kits - May 2009 edit Reply with quote

**edit May 21, 2009**

So an update on this subject. I've installed a few G60 caliper / A8 rotor brake kits & so far they are really great. The only thing more I want to do is make a rotor centric spacer to center the rotor perfectly. Here's a few more pics of what I put on my own van. You can see the dust shield on the pics for an idea of the original rotor size & those are 17" wheels. My 16" alloys fit. 15's no way, this is a BIG brake kit! Pedal feel is fantastic, the stock master cylinder is fine & my dog (guess what, he's black) gives me the stink-eye when I grab a bit too much...

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After some thought & many inquiries I've decided that the best thing to do with this is not sell parts to people. What I will do is give the drawings away & ask for a donation of whatever you think it was worth to you.
You can use the drawings to make your own parts or have them made. Even having a machine shop do some work for you is cheaper than buying a kit in my opinion. Maybe I just know too many machineists who work for beer. If you get together & do a group buy it would be nice to get a kick from all the buyers, I think it would be a great way to cut down the costs & don't want to manage it myself. Drop me a fresh PM if you're interested.

I have drawings to make hubs from a vanagon rotor, the G60 caliper adapters and the spacers. For all the guys who PM'd looking for rears I'll make some rear adapters in the fall or later if I get sent to the Arctic. (by the way the Russians had absolutly no idea where they were when they planted that flag but maybe thats not related to this post...)

The reason i won't sell parts & all drawings will be titled "barbacue pivot" or "Radio Flyer wagon wheel" is I really don't need to get involved in someones lawsuit when they rear end a schoolbus full of nuns & blame their brakes etc... PS if you do use any of this you will die along with everyone you know.


A few notes on the setup -

Girling G60 calipers. There were a few different iterations of these calipers but they all fit as far as I know. Some were for a forward mount & some were for a rear mount & the big piston was swapped around. Rear mount would be better
http://www.gowestyautoparts.com/OEM/viewProducts.a...Hydraulics

1998.5 Audi A8 Quattro rotors - 312x25mm drilled & slotted optional! Zimmerman is great quality, i went with a set from iRotors on ebay.http://www.gowestyautoparts.com/OEM/viewProducts.a...ront+Wheel

Stock brake lines do not fit perfect. check out the above GW link, it has the G60 brake lines.

I cut my adapters from CSA G40.21 44W structural steel for no other reason than its reasonably strong & easy for me to find lying around. They are threaded for both the 12mm (class 10.9) bolts for the calipers & the 16mm bolts from the original calipers.

At a minimum you will have to add 3/16 spacers to space things so the adapters have some meat to them, since I was already using a 10mm spacer my track didn't change & I just made the adapters thicker accordingly.

The original caliper bolts are reusable but need to be shortened.

FYI the new gowesty parts site has everything required listed as in stock. If you find a nasty old set of calipers there are many parts sellers who will take them as cores for more than what you paid for them. I found mine for $38 & got a $60 core refund on rebuild units. If you do buy calipers make sure they come with the carrier!!!

Cheers,

Reuben

PS Those Allroad calipers were just too deep to make work, o well...


Hi Samba crew,

I've been mulling this over for a while. My friend & I (the audi v8 vanagon guy) have been mucking around with big brake kits for our vans & others for a while now, make a few kits for front & rear disk conversions & I've been thinking about putting together some DIY kits for the community. Many of us already have upgrades & gettting parts locally would be part of the goal. Someone with a smallcar G60 or south african kit could go to 300 or 312mm rotors & not have to even undo a brake line, just swap rotors, install caliper adapters add new pads & off you go 1/2 hour later all done. I don't want to have to deal with rotors or pads or calipers, most people can get them cheap on ebay or at a local supplier. All kits would use stock Audi rotors depending on the size & calpiers used & really only come with adapters to make your existing calipers fit bigger rotors.

So what I could make available are the following:

G60 caliper to 312 or 300x25mm vented rotors
south african caliper to 312 or 300x25mm vented rotors
Audi A4 (van cafe kit??) to 312 or 300x25 vented rotors
Audi 200 rear (same as small car rear??) to vented 300x22mm

I can do hubs too if there is interest.

I wouldn't be looking to get rich, just cover costs+time=beer money.
No thoughts on cost yet but not marking up rotors or calipers would keep it down. No cheese either, no mild steel or washer stacks & grade 8 fastners only.

Pics are of a few kits done to date & works in progress. 16" rims would be minimum. 312's fit under 16"s & the 321's, I don't know don't have any to try, Looks close tho....

To be honest, none if it is rocket science, I'm a mechanical designer & have access to a VW shop & water cutting facilities. There really isn't much to making most caliper adapters. (the hubs are a bit more tricky & don't even ask about the allroad caliper adapters) I just like the idea of making a easy kit for fellow addicts who don't have a machine shop to play in.

So this is really just a feeler to the community to gauge interest. If there is enough I'll take it to the next level but if not i'll just carry on stopping on a dime by myself.

Cheers,
reuben

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312x25 + G60

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321x30 & hubs

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321x30 + allroad 2 pad caliper

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SA caliper mount FEA

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Last edited by BlackDogVan on Tue May 26, 2009 8:31 am; edited 11 times in total
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kayakwesty
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to high-jacked your thread , but I would love to see a DIY kit for a rear brake set-up

Could you provide one also?
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BlackDogVan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Not to high-jacked your thread , but I would love to see a DIY kit for a rear brake set-up

Could you provide one also?


Since its all vaporware at this point, sure why not!
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vwlovr
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackDogVan wrote:
Quote:
Not to high-jacked your thread , but I would love to see a DIY kit for a rear brake set-up

Could you provide one also?


Since its all vaporware at this point, sure why not!


with the only real disc kit being the $750+ small car kit, i think the rear kit will be more competitive and more desirable. most people who want big braking already have the front, but have a hard time parting with that much cash for the rears. if you can do a rear kit for $400-500 i think it would sell much faster than yet another front kit.

that's my 2 cents, i already did mine so i have no interest personally. had you had a kit to undersell small car's rear kit i would have bought it in a second.
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wgargan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted yes, but am only interested in in a rear disk set up. Mainly just the caliper adapter and whatever it takes to hook up the e-brake. i could source the rest.

On edit: I would also just be interested in the caliper mount dimensions and drawing so I could have them made up by the machinist at work.
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HeftySmurf
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm all about the rear set up too
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BlackDogVan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calipers are easy to find, carriers are a bitch. There is a reason the rear kits cost more.

For the record I think the smallcar G60 front kits are a fantastic deal, calipers, hubs, rotors & adapters for that price is really good value.

Once the rotors need replacement is another thing. I just want to make big brake kits bigger! The SA rotors aren't relly that big for the size of vehicle.

As for the SC rear kit I can't see them jacking the cost on the rear kits, price the parts yourself without caliper adapters & see where you get to.

What ever happened to bern's eurovan rear disk kit? Thats the way to go there, easy to find parts & cheap to buy.
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a914622
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackDogVan wrote:


What ever happened to bern's eurovan rear disk kit? Thats the way to go there, easy to find parts & cheap to buy.


Bern didnt have a "Eurovan rotor" rear kit. I did. Iv been working on a bracket that holds a ford rear caliper for both 280mm rotor and a turned down dia. that will fit under the stock 14 inch rim. Im way close on a DIY!!

I do like your 300 front rotor !!!! I have a machine shop if your looking for a shop.....

jcl
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dumpling
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea is good and so is the spirit behind it. We can all get parts. It's the adapters that are needed. Seems like a lot of options though. I just want bigger brakes on all corners.
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sc-surfer
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in for front and rear.... Just waiting for someone to put them out there. Was waiting on Bern.....MIA? I am willing to source the basic parts I just don't have the background to make the adapters.

I'M IN!!
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djbside
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Id be all over this like flys on crap, stink on the same crap, and even white on rice!

The idea of being able to get my own parts for bigger brake conversions all the way around and paying a desent amount of money for parts like brackets and what not is great.

Id like to be able to put larger brakes on all wheels, yet have them work with 14" since I plan to keep those for the time being. And then when I do my engine upgrade I'll step up to the 15" wheels.
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izzydog
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rears, please.

Adapters a must, parts list a maybe and a complete kit would be the optimum for me.
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r39o
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REARS!

Especially ones that do not require so much (if any) meat to be removed from the hub! Plus no complicated hook up of the E-brake.

I and some others have done the big fronts easy enough. In my case, it was Mercedes ML320 303 mm rotors, cut off vanagon front rotors for hubs, G60 calipers and a water cut adaptor. Done. No biggie.

The rears just seem like a pain. ML 320 rear rotors do fit over the stock rear hub, but do not have a lot of pad area.....sigh... I have looked at LOTS of rear rotors. Some only need a little off the hub, which is not bad. But, the rear calipers are another story. Just have not looked at many rear calipers, yet, though.

So I vote for a REAR kit or just an adaptor and a populated BOM so I know what to buy / get.

So how about it????? REARS?

"We like REARS!"
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Crughy
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interested for a 2wd.
Curious to see how much it would run up to in Can$.

JP
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BlackDogVan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like there are more than enough upcoming options for rears from Bern or a914622 with... ahem... ford calipers... (sorry Loogy). What are they like, cheap & easy to find everywhere? Where's the fun in that!

Making rear kits does not interest me & wasn't the original intent of my post. Also making something to fit under a 14" wheel really isn't my bag, I want 14" rotors not wheels! Maybe if I was a business I would do what everyone else wants....
That said I promised my buddy I'd make him some rear brakes from the '05 Allroad rear calipers that match my fronts, 255x10 rotors. When I do that I'll take a tonne of pics, keep track of the bits & pieces I use, share everything I learn & post an ad for the adapters. If that sounds good start looking for 2005 allroad rear calipers. Mine were off a BiTurbo V6 model, the V8 models were different. If Bern chimes in or JCL's kit gets dialed in the meantime jump on it, I would!!


Last edited by BlackDogVan on Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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wgargan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackDogVan wrote:
Looks like there are more than enough upcoming options for rears from Bern (did he fall down a well?) or a914622 with... ahem... ford calipers... (sorry Loogy). What are they like, cheap & easy to find everywhere? Where's the fun in that!



I dont know what you are talking about. Can you enlighten me????
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vwlovr
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackDogVan wrote:
Making rear kits does not interest me & wasn't the original intent of my post.


i get that, but the response on this thread makes it obvious that there is a larger market for competitive rear kits to the small car option. if you want to help the vanagon community and make money, i still think rear kits will sell better if you can undercut the small car kit.

as for those who are concerned about shaving down the rear hubs, i don't get it. it may seem dramatic on yer 2wd, but for small car's kit you don't have to shave it down any smaller than the front hubs on a syncro.

don't get me wrong, i'm glad to see someone willing to make kits for fronts, but i think rear kits aren't much harder and could be profitable since there is a lot less competition.
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MrPolak
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd go for a front kit first, then a rear. I have an '84 so I'd have to source '86 and later uprights, correct? TALK MONEY!
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Mofus
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be interested in SA caliper mounts to run bigger rotors, but I am more interested in a rear disk brake kit.

Bern's thread came alive again recently, but no news...

Hey Walt, didn't you request the CAD file for Bern's bracket? Did you ever get it?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

r39o wrote:
REARS!



So how about it????? REARS?

"We like REARS!"


I'll second that. ahem....brakes od course. Shocked Shocked
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