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theizzardking
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2008
Posts: 2097
Location: seattle
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 Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: new or rebuilt "new"engine? warranty concerns..... |
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hey volks looking at getting a new from factory (mexi) long block only thing is i noticed there is no warranty as it comes from the factory, so is it better to get a brand new engine from factory with no warranty or get a "new" rebuilt engine with a 12/12 warranty? when i say new i mean new case new new heads new cam ect ect ect, i think i've been seeing these so called new ones having remanned rockers and lifters, wudda think? is the 12/12 warranty the dogs bullocks? or should i not even worry about the warranty if it's coming straight from the factory?
side note: i've been told they quit making these now but it would seem more than one vendor has a stock of them. i have called and confirmed from at least 3 sources that these are brand new from factory not rebuilt "new"
thanks!
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Viande
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2008
Posts: 1719
Location: GA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: new or rebuilt "new"engine? warranty concerns. |
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| theizzardking wrote: |
hey volks looking at getting a new from factory (mexi) long block only thing is i noticed there is no warranty as it comes from the factory, so is it better to get a brand new engine from factory with no warranty or get a "new" rebuilt engine with a 12/12 warranty? when i say new i mean new case new new heads new cam ect ect ect, i think i've been seeing these so called new ones having remanned rockers and lifters, wudda think? is the 12/12 warranty the dogs bullocks? or should i not even worry about the warranty if it's coming straight from the factory?
side note: i've been told they quit making these now but it would seem more than one vendor has a stock of them. i have called and confirmed from at least 3 sources that these are brand new from factory not rebuilt "new"
thanks! |
It all depends on your source. If you buy locally a warranty might be nice. However with mailorder the cost to ship it back for repairs will outweigh any perceived benefit imo. There have been a number of discussions on this. Try this link and it may help you out. Good luck.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?search..._chars=200
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New Items In Stock, NOS & OEM Seals,Parts and Terminals
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The bitter taste of poor quality lingers long after the joy of the cheap price fades away. |
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rosevillain
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Joined: December 28, 2005
Posts: 1290
Location: roseville, ca
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Last year I purchased a rebuild long block that had new heads and case from a very reputable local shop- Bugformance Motor Sports. After 4 months, the flywheel let loose. The shop took the engine back, installed a new crank, main bearings, and flywheel, and checked everything else out- no charge.
I just completed a 1600 mile round trip in my bus without a glitch, and 500 miles 3 weeks before that.
I recommend that you buy locally. Freight charges will usually equalize a good deal, and usually freight will not be included in a warranty dispute. |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
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Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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A GEX warranty is not worth the paper it's written on.
Two years ago I purchased a engine from Art Thraen and never asked for one because I know his reputation and he'll stand behind his work. But that's assuming I do my part.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
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Desertbusman
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Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 14655
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: new or rebuilt "new"engine? warranty concerns. |
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| theizzardking wrote: |
| a "new" rebuilt engine with a 12/12 warranty? when i say new i mean new case new new heads new cam ect ect ect, i think i've been seeing these so called new ones having remanned rockers and lifters, wudda think? is the 12/12 warranty the dogs bullocks? |
It all depends on who you get the engine from or who built it. Expensive doesn't always mean it's better, but it might be. Cheaper doesn't mean it's not as good but it might be a good indication. A friend did the "new" 12/12 engine thing and it lasted 13 months and around 10,000 miles. It was a junk engine. In considering the cost of the engine and the cost of the parts to build it revealed a major problem. There could only have been just a small amount of labor hours involved in building it. Maybe only a $100 worth of labor could have been involved. Basic slop job assembly. It's the assembly details that matter. I'd sure think that a factory engine is professionally built. And a factory engine probably has better parts in it if it's the same engine that would have been installed in factory VW's.
As far as some used part versus new parts I prefer to go with German parts. Reground and parkerized German lifters and quality rebuilt German heads, German tins, etc.
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theizzardking
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Joined: June 13, 2008
Posts: 2097
Location: seattle
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: |
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so the deal i'm looking at right now is from northwest connecting rods he has the thumbs up from a few guys locally and i haven't been able to even find one person who has had a problem, which seems to be unheard of , usual even with the best rebuilders you'll get a story like " it blew up on me an mr.x took it back and made it right with very little hassle"
what i'm getting is rebuilt 1600cc dp balanced ,full flowed, line bored for 1765 all new parts with the exception of crank,case,cam and rods. all of which are reman'd. 12mo and 12,000mi warranty
or the mexi long block, he was telling me he'd rather have a reman'd german piece than a new mexi piece. i'm kinda of split on that line of thinking, wudda you guys think?
he said it'll take 10-14 days to get it built and all of the rest.
could that be a good indicator of the time put into this?
i really want to use the guy but like every big purchase i make i'm nervous about dropping down this large sum of money with out being sure i'm doing the right thing.
thanks you soo much samba community i know i've been kind of freaking out about all of this engine stuff lately, but hell it's the heart of my bus and i only got 1 shot at it for the next few years. so in short thanks for putting up with my neuroses and craziness i've been displaying in this search....
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
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davis911s
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Joined: July 07, 2005
Posts: 976
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| theizzardking wrote: |
he has the thumbs up from a few guys locally and i haven't been able to even find one person who has had a problem,
or the mexi long block,
he said it'll take 10-14 days to get it built |
Sounds like both guys are local? You posted great feedback on one guy and no feedback from the other guy. The seller with great feedback is offering warrant. The other guy is not.
I am guessing that the second guy has a way lower price?
I also think your "spidey senses" are tingling about the second guy, I always tell people to go with thier senses. Have you thought about rebuilding it yourself? That way you WILL know what has been done.
Good Luck
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theizzardking
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2008
Posts: 2097
Location: seattle
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:09 am Post subject: |
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the mexi long block is from the factory.... no review to speak of......
so it's also not local.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
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Desertbusman
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Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 14655
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Have you asked in the Engines Forum? Probably a big wad of folks in there that have opinions on Mexi engines.
I don't remember who it was but a while back it seemed like some mickey mouse supplier was advertising new Mexi engines but actually they were building them in house using Mexi parts. You wouldn't want a rip-off like that. However it would be cool to have a totally new VW factory built engine.
If you go rebuilt, your balance and full-flow would be the ticket. Not much need for a cooler but a filter is important. Also before you had someone build one it might be worthwhile to read Tom Wilsons rebuild book to get a good grasp on all the things you would want to make sure the builder would do.
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Glenn
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Joined: December 25, 2001
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Desertbusman wrote: |
| Have you asked in the Engines Forum? |
Why would he do that? Everything you ever need to know is here. Right???
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
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theizzardking
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2008
Posts: 2097
Location: seattle
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Desertbusman wrote: |
| Have you asked in the Engines Forum? |
Why would he do that? Everything you ever need to know is here. Right??? |
yea i posted this after i did a search and proceeded to read the 50 threads on the mexi long block,
i'm more trying to find out why people would prefer to have a rebuilt engine over a new one, and what i'm getting is people would rather have remanned german stuff than new mexi crap. but that line of thinking has only been stated 3-4 times and no one clearly states the draw backs of going with a brand new engine, i mean if this was a mopar it'd be a no brainer to just order a crate engine and drop it in, but as the case with acvw's thier a little bit different,
and what are the chances of me getting 100k out of an engine? it seems pretty lame to me that seems like a lot of miles, in comparison to other engines......
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Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
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davis911s
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Joined: July 07, 2005
Posts: 976
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| theizzardking wrote: |
the mexi long block is from the factory.... no review to speak of......
so it's also not local. |
Ok sorry, I misread.
I take it you are having the engine assembled by the local guy and HE prefers the factory vs mexi
Makes sense
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"I choose to use CAA on old cars with character...instead of car payments on a new car "
1973 Westfalia, Camper Special with 75 FI. Automatic 003 . Non-pop top
1977 Porsche 911S Targa, 2.7 L with 5spd
1992 Passat G60 Syncro Wagon (SOLD)
1975 Westfalia (SOLD)
1979 Westfalia (SOLD) |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76939
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| theizzardking wrote: |
| i'm more trying to find out why people would prefer to have a rebuilt engine over a new one, and what i'm getting is people would rather have remanned german stuff than new mexi crap. |
Mexican engines have cast cranks while German engine have forged cranks. That's perfectly fine for stock, but no good for performance.
I'd take German rebuilt any day over new Mexican. But they must be correctly rebuilt... and not reused.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
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theizzardking
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2008
Posts: 2097
Location: seattle
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| davis911s wrote: |
| theizzardking wrote: |
the mexi long block is from the factory.... no review to speak of......
so it's also not local. |
Ok sorry, I misread.
I take it you are having the engine assembled by the local guy and HE prefers the factory vs mexi
Makes sense |
haha nope you got it wrong again, the factory is mexi that's the problem.
the internals will be the "cheaply made mexi parts" .
so he prefers doing a rebuild as you get mostly german parts remanufactured.
with a new factory one you get a mexican assembled and mexican made parts and such, the whole engine is made in mexico.
so do you go with a rebuild with german and good after market parts or do you get the mexican factory long block ?
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
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theizzardking
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Joined: June 13, 2008
Posts: 2097
Location: seattle
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| theizzardking wrote: |
| i'm more trying to find out why people would prefer to have a rebuilt engine over a new one, and what i'm getting is people would rather have remanned german stuff than new mexi crap. |
Mexican engines have cast cranks while German engine have forged cranks. That's perfectly fine for stock, but no good for performance.
I'd take German rebuilt any day over new Mexican. But they must be correctly rebuilt... and not reused. |
oh my freaking god glenn!!!!! that's exactly the sort of response i was looking for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that's my main concern!!!!!!!!!!!!
i breathed a little easier in my decision after i read that, as it was my thoughts but that's they problem their my thoughts and i don't know crap about this sort of thing and i really really don't want the learning curve to cost me 2K or so!!!!!!
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melville
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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NWCR is the way to go if you are local. Good stuff, and probably singlehandedly keeping more VWs on the road in Seattle than ANYONE else. Price ain't bad either--20 years ago it was $795 with rebuilt heads IIRC.
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Jake Raby
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Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Warrantys don't keep engines from breaking....
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Jerry
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Joined: October 28, 2007
Posts: 1367
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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You need to find a reputable engine builder... one you have heard positives about. My engine has come apart 2 times already, the first time, we sent it back to them, they rebuilt it & told us they had no idea why it blew, the second time we were 900 miles from home, (on vacation) & had to tow it to a vw authorized service shop to rebuild it. I sure do wish I had not looked at that ad in that vw magazine. I have mentioned this matter to a reputable VW mechanic & he told me he has repaired engines from this company before & they were junk. (I won't mention which company yet, I want to hear their reply first). I hope you have better luck than I have had.
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hechando mechanica
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Joined: June 04, 2007
Posts: 81
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject: Go NWCR; it's a no brainer |
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Northwest Connecting Rod is my vote. Jerry knows what he is talking about, one of a dying breed of excellent engine builders who breathes quality. He is a grade A motor head and has been rebuilding VW engines for decades in Seattle. I bought a long block for my 78 Westy 5 years ago and have not had a single problem; I have 30, 000 miles currently on this engine and it has powered me on many trips both long and not so long. Jerry will also help you break and tune the engine in correctly, something you will not get ordering an engine from somewhere else other than your city. As for the brand new vs rebuilt debate, I would take Jerry's workmanship any day. If you are concerned ask him what kind of parts he uses and what kind of feedback he has received from customers. You're lucky you live in a city that has an engine builder as good as Jerry. I had many little questions regarding optimal engine performance and replacing FI parts and Jerry helped me every step of the way. This is a no brainer decision in my opinion.
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theizzardking
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Posts: 2097
Location: seattle
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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yea , i went and gave him the first 950 for my engine and he's getting on to it, after hearing all of the feedback i'm really happy i decided to go with this guy as opposed to avp or some of the others out there it may cost me a couple of hundred more but i really don't mind paying more for a quality build, went down to his shop and chatted for a couple of hours real nice guy,
and took the time to explain to me what is going on, and what i should be running and how to set things up, really appreciated that. just makes me wonder why his business isn't bigger? it was kind of hard to find him in the pile of engine builders i went through i would have nver heard of him if it wasn't for word of mouth, but that's not really my place, some people are just happier with a smaller company and such, i'm just happy he's doing my engine for me and promised todo a good job,good case and good german parts. they say the proof is in the pudding but i'm already very happy and excited. thanks for all of your help and input folks!
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