How long will the 2.1 wbx last ?

[Jamin87]

I recently bought my first Westy, an 87 with 160,000 miles. It runs great, and I find the power to be sufficient for what I intend to use it for, which is weekend/weeklong getaways in the New England area where I live. If anything happens on a trip, I can have it towed back home. I understand for those going cross country/out of country the peace of mind of having a rebuilt or conversion is nice. But, I would like to get as much life out of the engine as possible while understanding that the day for a rebuild will eventually come. My fear is that if I will wait too long, I may blow a rod thus reducing the core exchange value of my engine or eliminating the possibility of having my own engine rebuilt. Is this fear warranted? I plan on installing an OP gauge. I've had the van looked at by a VW mechanic (I am not yet mechanically inclined but learning lots from reading the Samba). The van came out with flying colors, all the red flag items that should be replaced with the vanagon had. So my question is, to be reactive and wait for the engine to die, possibly blow a rod, or be proactive by spending money on a rebuild while my core is still intact?

[tencentlife]

The only predictable difference is the price of the core engine if you trash your case and crank. Anywhere from $600 to $1000 would have to be added to the cost of the rebuild. The upside of that is you save the cost of return shipping. But then that get's offset some by eating the crate deposit some vendors like myself and GW charge. If you're in love with your original engine serial number then that may have value to you, too, which would be forfeit if you chuck a rod. Otherwise, if you're not afraid of being stranded on the highway some day, and can bear the additional costs should that day come, then drive on!

If you add an OP gauge and make sure your dynamic OP warning system works as it should, then there's a really good chance you'll see the failure coming, if it ever does, just before it's too late and have that critical few seconds to shut it down and coast off to the shoulder.

The problem is, as the 2.1's age, the OP buzzer gives lots of nuisance warnings, as you power down off the freeway for instance, so more and more the driver ignores it. But if it ever comes on when under load, you need to understand the difference and shut it down immediately. Not to do so is the thousand-dollar mistake. Hopefully the wife isn't driving it on the day!

Of course with the added core charges you would face if you do blow it up, the conversions become that much more attractive. C'est la vie. Like our buddy Ben says, it's all good.
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Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is kryptonite to doctrine.

[66 dormi]

Alright ten cent no worries sorry I'm not much of an engine guy but if I understand correctly a better breathing functioning motor should put the dreaded yearly etest worries to rest?
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DORMOBILE TOP WANTED!!!!
1978 westy daily driver
1960 panel camper project

Mini R53 bob the tomato

[Wildthings]

[SyncroChrick]

this is a very entertaining thread!

I never had the chance to deal with tencentlife but Ben has been kind enough to salvage the WBX in my engine a few years ago. I am really grateful of the wonderful job he did.

Funny thing is, at that time Ben was not at all convinced in a Subaru conversion....remember Ben?



But things have changed.

Both of you guys have great arguments.

Tencentlife, you are absolutely right about people bashing the WBX not realising they've got 160k miles out of it...most Subaru engine will also need work by then.
I share a shop with some Subaru conversion hardcore enthusiasts and I guarantee I have seen several issues with these engines too - mostly head gaskets on 2.2l.

Just one example amongst others - apparently the Subaru flywheel has a different weight than the Vanagon flywheel which in some cases is blamed for making it difficult to adjust the idle speed on a Subaru conversion.
Some people also have issues with using the Vanagon starter with the Subaru - noone seems exactly sure why.

With the current adapter kit you reuse the Vanagon flywheel. SmallCar just came out with a bellhousing that will allow you to use the Subaru flywheel/starter - which I think is the solution to this problem.

http://smallcar.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=183

I guess my point is that it's never black or white.

As for me, up to very recently I was convinced to keep the WBX. Now I am not so sure anymore. I do think you can get a really good and reliable WBX if you ensure all the surrounding components are fine.

However, the power, the bandwitdh, RPM and the sound of the Subaru is VERY attractive...and the potential for modifications is quasi unlimited...

just listen to this...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxPBNev3MK0

Costwise, the difference is not as big as I had first imagined. A good WBX is going to be $3500 if you want it perfect.

I do all the work myself so labor is not counted.
I have priced all the parts from SmallCar and if I can find a good 2.5 with wiring/ECU I think I can keep it below $5000.

I am planning to start gathering the parts for the conversion slowly next year while the good old WBX is running...

[ftp2leta]

Yeap, good thing you use the world "Salvage" Mr. now living in California

Just to show only one picture:

(Something that most US mechanic won't see often)

Maybe this is one reason i had to find "Solutions/options"

Your right about what i thought about Subi at the time, i had seen my share of shitty conversion. And no, at the time i would never had gone this way.

I like perfection and perfection take time to elaborate, and i didn't have the free time. I barely have it today.

By the way, i don't know how your neighbour butcher the conversion but the adaptor plate should come with a mating flywheel.

I don't like the Kennedy engine mounts.... anyway, we make out own now.

As for Wildthings, if you ever want a brand new solid 1/8 thick powder coated, non leaking and solide shorten oil pan, contact me in private. You will get something fully tested and perfectly welded with an new oil pickup design that as no welding or joint.

This is a well done and non butchered reverse coolant manifold done the right way (thanks to Hans from Vanaru)

Ben
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta

[Pascal]

[tencentlife]

[66 dormi]

Got it thanx!
_________________
DORMOBILE TOP WANTED!!!!
1978 westy daily driver
1960 panel camper project

Mini R53 bob the tomato

[GrindGarage]

Has anyone used the complete small car kit? I have an automatic and i am attracted to it being sold as "complete" kit. For the price i expect there to be no issues with cheap thorttle conversions or having to dremel engine mounts. In either case i could fab my own (if i had the time). I was even thinking of using their coolant reveseing service but like wildthings said i could have it done locally if someone had a cad or pdf template for the local shop.
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-cliff

91 Vanagon AUTO
97 Single Port EJ22 all smallcar.com

[Kbeehner]

I have a '91 Vanagon with 480,000 miles. My first engine was regasketed at around 100,000 or 125,000. Then it drove until about 415,000 before I lost compression in one of my cylinders.

[tencentlife]

Pretty impressive.

Curious, is it an automatic?
_________________
Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/

Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is kryptonite to doctrine.

[WBX man]

My experience is that the 1.9 is much stronger because I believe the angle between the conrod and crank is more critical and therefore gives the 1.9 an advantage from the start.
My previous 1.9 vent more than 320,000 miles
I only took the motor apart because the car was too rusty to fix, and I was wrecking the car.
When I opened the motor I could see wear on the main bearings but nothing serious.The camshaft bearings was totally worn out and the white metal was peeling off.
The liners still had the factory cross marks inside and the pistons didn’t show any sign of wear only the piston rings where done.
The heads had a lot of pitting due to wrong or missing coolant (before I knew anything about the WBX I have at times used pure water in the cooler system Sorry !).
I sold the crank case and crank, which both were within the measures from the Bentley repair manual.
The crank actually didn’t vary much from a “new” crank measurement!
I would say about 200,000 miles is easy achievable if you do frequent oil changes etc. and don’t over revs your engine
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2,1 DJ WBX Vanagon/ T3 with Megasquirt/ Renault-Lotus UN1 gearbox/ 320 mm AMG front brakes/ 280mm Eurovan rear brakes

My recent projects:
http://www.t3nettet.dk/viewtopic.php?p=6342#6342

[GrindGarage]

[klucz]

[WBX man]

[dredward]

[beatrich]

In response to the question that is the title of the post- exactly 136,973 miles. (anecdotal, to be sure)

[ftp2leta]

[dredward]