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Russ Wolfe
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Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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 Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Early carbs, both long rods were adjustable.
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ZippyTWS
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Joined: November 10, 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Federal Way, WA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| ZippyTWS wrote: |
The 2 short rods were different lengths as well as the 2 long rods that start at the center of the motor area. All of the ball pivot points are the same size. The rods are all the same diameter as well. Could these have been off of a type 2? The PO gave us a type 2 book when we got Zippy. I thought that odd. |
Are you measuring the rods from the center of each pivot, or are you measuring their overall length? I'm only asking, because it can make a difference. The 99mm measurement is from center to center of the pivots. If you were measuring the overall length, then you'll need to add about 13mm to that giving you something close to Mike's numbers.
The 2 long rods are supposed to be different lengths though. The left rod's ends are usually attached to the rod by swedging, while the right rod is adjustable. It' set up this way, because you want the left carb to be the base line carb, and then adjust the right carb to it. When you've got them balanced, the long right rod should just pop on without any changes to engine speed. If the right rod is too long, or too short, you loosen the jam nuts (one end is LEFT hand thread), and adjust the rod either in or out to the length needed. I hope this helps. |
Bob, On the short rods, I reset them from pivot center to pivot center. The longer rods, I just measured from end to end this morning and have not done any adjusting. Since those measurements are so much longer than Mike's, could the 3 arm connector in the center be set at the wrong angle? I know they'll be a longer measurement as I measured end to end. Also, now the short rods (the ones from carb top to carb bottom) won't even go on. I used a caliper to set the small rods. Unfortunately, it only has inches and not mm on it, so it's at 3-15/16" pivot center to pivot center. One is WAY to short, the other is WAY to long. I think I need to start over and get both carbs set mechanically the same before I try to get the rods to fit back on. You know, start over from scratch. I may as well clean things up while I'm in there. If I check the float etc. will I need a carb rebuild kit? or can I just get new gaskets? or can older gaskets in good shape be re-used? Things are starting to make sense now, but I think I still have a long row to hoe.
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~~Sheri~~
1971 Squareback w/ dual carbs~~Zippy (Main project)
1969 Fastback~~McNasty (Haven't started this one yet)
1965 Ford F100~~Betsy (Husband's main project)
1993 Dodge Dakota SLT~~Ole Red (Runs when nothing else wants to) |
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ZippyTWS
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Joined: November 10, 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Federal Way, WA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Russ Wolfe wrote: |
| Early carbs, both long rods were adjustable. |
These rods seem to fit this description. I wasn't sure what a swedging was, but I figured it was a fixed attachment and irrelevant as both my long rods are adjustable.  YAY! Finally something that matches what should be.
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~~Sheri~~
1971 Squareback w/ dual carbs~~Zippy (Main project)
1969 Fastback~~McNasty (Haven't started this one yet)
1965 Ford F100~~Betsy (Husband's main project)
1993 Dodge Dakota SLT~~Ole Red (Runs when nothing else wants to) |
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Russ Wolfe
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Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Start with your throttle cable disconnected, and see if you can get your rods set to the right length.
If you have the wrong rods, I may be able to come up with a set.
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Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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ZippyTWS
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Federal Way, WA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Russ Wolfe wrote: |
Start with your throttle cable disconnected, and see if you can get your rods set to the right length.
If you have the wrong rods, I may be able to come up with a set. |
Thank you Russ. I'll try that. My big halogen light burnt out last night. I'll try that as soon as I can.
_________________
~~Sheri~~
1971 Squareback w/ dual carbs~~Zippy (Main project)
1969 Fastback~~McNasty (Haven't started this one yet)
1965 Ford F100~~Betsy (Husband's main project)
1993 Dodge Dakota SLT~~Ole Red (Runs when nothing else wants to) |
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EverettB 
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Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69829
Location: Phoenix Metro
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ZippyTWS
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Joined: November 10, 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Federal Way, WA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Everett. That is exactly where I found the information about how long the rod should be. I mistakenly assumed that it meant both long rods. So, am I correct with my plan of cleaning them (the carbs) up as much as possible, removing the throttle cable, setting the carbs at the 'ground zero' settings found in your archive manual, replacing the newly adjusted rods, replacing the throttle cable, then firing up the engine to fine tune the timing and adjust the carbs? I know left carb is always first as it is the one that leads the system. Oh, another quick question: There is a third spring in this set up.
It is attached to the 3 arm device in the center. Should it even be there? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere and that makes me wonder if the PO put it there to compensate because everything else was so far out of adjustment. Is there anything else that I should be aware of before I dig in? ~~Sheri
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~~Sheri~~
1971 Squareback w/ dual carbs~~Zippy (Main project)
1969 Fastback~~McNasty (Haven't started this one yet)
1965 Ford F100~~Betsy (Husband's main project)
1993 Dodge Dakota SLT~~Ole Red (Runs when nothing else wants to) |
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EverettB
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Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69829
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I think you should be in a better state once the rods are set correctly. Everything else you said sounds good too.
The 3rd spring is not stock but not uncommon. People add them because the carbs. are not returning to their full resting position. It doesn't hurt and may indicated the springs at each carb. are stretched out a bit from age.
I normally follow the synch. procedure in that manual, which includes removing the right-hand rod while synchronizing and adjusting and changing its length if necessary.
The only thing I ignore is trying to set the idle at 750 rpms. This is not always possible due to carburetor or jet wear so I set it higher if needed.
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ZippyTWS
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Joined: November 10, 2008
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Location: Federal Way, WA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:33 am Post subject: |
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I want to thank everyone that helped me figure this out. I'll dig into this in the next few days and let you all know how I did. Hopefully, I won't have too many more questions about it. Thanks again for all the help!!! You guys are great!!!  ~~Sheri
_________________
~~Sheri~~
1971 Squareback w/ dual carbs~~Zippy (Main project)
1969 Fastback~~McNasty (Haven't started this one yet)
1965 Ford F100~~Betsy (Husband's main project)
1993 Dodge Dakota SLT~~Ole Red (Runs when nothing else wants to) |
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Russ Wolfe
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Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: |
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That center bell crank is not set right. It should be more of a 45 degree angle. I think that is where your problem is.
Here is my 66.
I think what someone has done is tried to make it work with 2 long rods. If you notice, the bell crank is offset to the centerline of the engine.
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Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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ZippyTWS
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Joined: November 10, 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Federal Way, WA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| Russ Wolfe wrote: |
That center bell crank is not set right. It should be more of a 45 degree angle. I think that is where your problem is.
Here is my 66.
I think what someone has done is tried to make it work with 2 long rods. If you notice, the bell crank is offset to the centerline of the engine. |
Russ, I think that would explain why the long rods were SOOO long. I'll see if I can't get that set right before I jump too far in. If I need a different one, Ovals would probably have one in stock that I could pick up. Question: Is the 3 arm adjustment tool necessary ( the one shown in the manual that Everett and I were discussing ) or can I do without? Or do we need to make a "Willis" tool. That's what we call the wierd little tools that we have to make for certain jobs when nothing else will work. Thanks for pointing that out Russ. That could make all the difference. ~~Sheri
_________________
~~Sheri~~
1971 Squareback w/ dual carbs~~Zippy (Main project)
1969 Fastback~~McNasty (Haven't started this one yet)
1965 Ford F100~~Betsy (Husband's main project)
1993 Dodge Dakota SLT~~Ole Red (Runs when nothing else wants to) |
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Mike Fisher
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: |
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If you rotate 45* it's gonna make your too long rods even longer! You could shorten them with metric tap/die.
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66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
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'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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ZippyTWS
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Joined: November 10, 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Federal Way, WA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| If you rotate 45* it's gonna make your too long rods even longer! You could shorten them with metric tap/die. |
If I rotate 45* counterclockwise, wouldn't that make them shorter? The left rod has quite a bit of adjustment to make it shorter. Well, actually they both do. Center pivot point to center pivot point on left rod is 13-3/4" and on the left it is 16-3/8". It looks feasible to adjust them shorter without resorting to any kind of retooling. The short rod has 3/8" of thread left on both sides to adjust shorter and the long on has 5/8" thread left on both ends. ~~Sheri
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~~Sheri~~
1971 Squareback w/ dual carbs~~Zippy (Main project)
1969 Fastback~~McNasty (Haven't started this one yet)
1965 Ford F100~~Betsy (Husband's main project)
1993 Dodge Dakota SLT~~Ole Red (Runs when nothing else wants to)
Last edited by ZippyTWS on Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike Fisher
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Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:39 am Post subject: |
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No. Looks like a problem to me.
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69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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ZippyTWS
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Joined: November 10, 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Federal Way, WA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| No. Looks like a problem to me. |
Mike, so now what do I do with it? This whole thing looks like a problem to me. Where do I go from here?
_________________
~~Sheri~~
1971 Squareback w/ dual carbs~~Zippy (Main project)
1969 Fastback~~McNasty (Haven't started this one yet)
1965 Ford F100~~Betsy (Husband's main project)
1993 Dodge Dakota SLT~~Ole Red (Runs when nothing else wants to) |
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Mike Fisher
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
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It would be pretty easy to cut/thread them down to fit. Looking for the shorter rods is just gonna slow you down and cost you money.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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ZippyTWS
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Joined: November 10, 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Federal Way, WA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| It would be pretty easy to cut/thread them down to fit. Looking for the shorter rods is just gonna slow you down and cost you money. |
I don't think I need shorter rods. If you measure all thread left exposed, I have 3/4" of adjustment threads remaining to make the left rod shorter and 1-1/4" of threads remaining to make the right one shorter. 
_________________
~~Sheri~~
1971 Squareback w/ dual carbs~~Zippy (Main project)
1969 Fastback~~McNasty (Haven't started this one yet)
1965 Ford F100~~Betsy (Husband's main project)
1993 Dodge Dakota SLT~~Ole Red (Runs when nothing else wants to) |
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Mike Fisher
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Well Great! You've been saying they're too long! Now they're not too long? Have you got the lock nuts loose so you can adjust them? Use WD40 first and use crescent wrenches or metric end wrenches.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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ZippyTWS
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Federal Way, WA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| Well Great! You've been saying they're too long! Now they're not too long? Have you got the lock nuts loose so you can adjust them? Use WD40 first and use crescent wrenches or metric end wrenches. |
Mike, I didn't mean to confuse you. Sorry. I thought they were too long because the specs in the manual said they should be 13.47" and I thought it meant both of them. The left hand rod yes can be adjusted down to that size. I didn't know that the right hand one was supposed to be longer than 13.47" since the 3 arm device is offset. The part I was talking about swinging by Ovals to pick up is the 3 arm piece. I doubt if I'll need one, but if it's damaged, I might. I have to swing by there today anyway to pick up a handful of fuel filters. I haven't gotten the lock nuts loose yet, I'll have to put them on the wire wheel and clean the crud out of the threads on the rod before the lock nuts will move toward the center. Thank you though. The 99mm rods had the same problem but I got those adjusted okay after cleaning them up.
_________________
~~Sheri~~
1971 Squareback w/ dual carbs~~Zippy (Main project)
1969 Fastback~~McNasty (Haven't started this one yet)
1965 Ford F100~~Betsy (Husband's main project)
1993 Dodge Dakota SLT~~Ole Red (Runs when nothing else wants to) |
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Mike Fisher
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Sounds good! When you get it right it will run good. My Solex's run great!
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https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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