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ScottK Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2004 Posts: 1748 Location: Avilla America
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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germansupplyscott wrote: |
please people, don't let the thread get out of control.
wildthings, dan, this has nothing to do with your vehicles or your expertise.
it's about some cool drawings that colin posted. i think they're cool, yes. if the drawing of the relay has the wrong number of terminals or a wire in the wrong spot i'm sure colin will fix it. |
Well said Scott. |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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I have also been dinking around with these double relays and have never understood them as well as I do today after following the drawings.
So far so good Colin!! |
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keifernet Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002 Posts: 19395 Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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ScottK wrote: |
germansupplyscott wrote: |
please people, don't let the thread get out of control.
wildthings, dan, this has nothing to do with your vehicles or your expertise.
it's about some cool drawings that colin posted. i think they're cool, yes. if the drawing of the relay has the wrong number of terminals or a wire in the wrong spot i'm sure colin will fix it. |
Well said Scott. |
Agreed... if anyone want's to argue about the post and get tit for tat personal with each other then do it with PM's. |
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dan macmillan Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2003 Posts: 3110 Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:42 am Post subject: |
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Just wanted to appologize to everyone for my behavior recently and say I am happy that this thread has been returned. Hope Santa is good to all.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone. _________________ Licensed Automotive Service Technician
Licensed Truck and Coach Technician
Licensed Heavy Duty Equipment Technician
CFC/HCFC/HFC A/C handling and installation license
Alignment specialist
66 Modified Manx,68 Kyote,74 Thing,74 Beetle, 76 Transporter,75 self made Double Cab,65 Meyers Manx,78Westy,68 Ghia, 79 Bradley GT2
Current projects:
Built for others:69 Manx Clone |
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enodios Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2010 Posts: 1 Location: California, Bay Area
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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If anyone still sees this thread, I had used the simplified diagrams to build a replacement double relay for under 20 dollars and now my bug is dead and a mechanic won't touch it. I am pretty sure that the resistors or diodes that are missing are in fact, incredibly important.
The engine starts, runs for a few seconds and then cuts out, any advice? |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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enodios wrote: |
If anyone still sees this thread, I had used the simplified diagrams to build a replacement double relay for under 20 dollars and now my bug is dead and a mechanic won't touch it. I am pretty sure that the resistors or diodes that are missing are in fact, incredibly important.
The engine starts, runs for a few seconds and then cuts out, any advice? |
I guess you could try a real relay, does the fuel pump run when you depress the AFM flap when the key is on? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Kirk Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2003 Posts: 5487 Location: North Texas
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Somehow I dont think the idea behind his drawing was for someone to use it to build a relay. _________________ MAKE FORUMS GREAT AGAIN
Bear
Coble
Super
Oppenheim |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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enodios wrote: |
If anyone still sees this thread, I had used the simplified diagrams to build a replacement double relay for under 20 dollars and now my bug is dead and a mechanic won't touch it. I am pretty sure that the resistors or diodes that are missing are in fact, incredibly important.
The engine starts, runs for a few seconds and then cuts out, any advice? |
She's for sale. Just feed her.
how about buying a genuine double relay. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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airkooledchris Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005 Posts: 2700
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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you did it wrong.
lots of bug guys use two relays to make a replacement for their beetle. check the beetle forum for tips on how to do it correctly. |
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Scapod Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2012 Posts: 25 Location: Alberta
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Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 2:52 pm Post subject: Double Relay Explained - In Color! |
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Hey Colin,
As a near 100% know nothing faced with the (to me) daunting task of installing an electrical fuel pump for the 2.0 litre going in my '73 type 2; your post and diagrams are outstanding; especially when compared to the half-help I've been getting everywhere else.
Thank you for contributing your time and labour. |
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blues412002 Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 79 Location: Parkville, MO
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:56 am Post subject: non-FI electric fuel pump |
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I am desirous of having a double relay to control my fuel pump. I do not have FI, just regular carbs. All of the connections regarding FI would be superfluous for me. Will this set-up still work for me and how would I wire it? I have difficulty understanding relays. Thanks! _________________ Tim Osburn
1956 Euro ragtop beetle (Ebon)
1974 Westy hardtop camper (Tullio)
2017 Tiguan (Sport II)
http://ralphspoilsportmotors.com |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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blues412002 Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 79 Location: Parkville, MO
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:20 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, Randy! _________________ Tim Osburn
1956 Euro ragtop beetle (Ebon)
1974 Westy hardtop camper (Tullio)
2017 Tiguan (Sport II)
http://ralphspoilsportmotors.com |
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kokopelli1973 Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2014 Posts: 35 Location: Baltimore
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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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thanks again for this informative initial post. I have a '77 bay with a 2L FI engine. i'm hoping to wrap my head around the wiring as the fuel pump is running with the keys out of the ignition!?! any thoughts? |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12688 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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kokopelli1973 wrote: |
thanks again for this informative initial post. I have a '77 bay with a 2L FI engine. i'm hoping to wrap my head around the wiring as the fuel pump is running with the keys out of the ignition!?! any thoughts? |
Trace the wires from your fuel pump. One must be going to a 12v source in your case, but it shouldn't!! Find it, then evaluate your bus wiring to see where it deviates from the stock wiring diagram. Sometimes it's a simple connection out of place, sometimes you'll spend a week with spools, strippers, and crimp connections. _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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kokopelli1973 Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2014 Posts: 35 Location: Baltimore
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Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:35 am Post subject: |
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I'll take a look after work, thank you |
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01capevwnut Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2010 Posts: 23 Location: Cape Coral FL.
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:39 pm Post subject: Double relays |
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I can't afford to buy a relay once a month for this VW.
Hi anyone I know this is an old, very old thread, but I seem to be losing double relays here 2 in so many weeks. Some one welded on my 79 S/B while at a shop and it has caused havoc with electronics. I have replaced a double relay, AFM, alternator. I had gotten the car running before replacing the alternator.
Now , the car won't start again. I am back to square one testing the relay. I downloaded the trouble shooting guide. but no luck on getting it started. Can I use the home made double relay as shown here with a direct #50 connection to the CSV and TTS? has anyone else used this hook up with any success?
Any help is greatly appreciated,
John |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3547 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, you can, but I doubt it will fix the problem. Consider: there is no reason the relays should fail, unless they're driving something which is pulling way too much current.
I'd do an analysis on the 'failed' relays and determine (1) which relay is failing, and (2) what is the failure mode. Bench testing is easy if you have a 12 volt source (battery, battery charger, power supply, etc.). You should be able to apply 12 volts to each coil, activate each relay individually and observe them pull in. Inspect the contacts on each relay and look for signs of failure or overheating. Post the results.
I'm betting there's an intermittent short in the system somewhere...
p.s. here's a corrected schematic from the first page showing a double relay equivalent built from standard cube relays. Note my version has two diodes. The second diode protects the first diode from back EMF from the relay coil. The diodes allow the starter and the airflow meter to both drive the fuel pump relay, but they keep the airflow meter from trying to drive the starter:
_________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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01capevwnut Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2010 Posts: 23 Location: Cape Coral FL.
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:00 am Post subject: Double relays |
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Thank you , thank you. I am now armed with new, and better info. I am headed into the garage after 1000hrs this morning. Last night I fell asleep with the D/R on my bed. I think it is giving me night mares. The last two D/R had no current at the pump terminal # 88d, I have a good ground at 85 and power at 88z & y. As per the tech manual I printed off this site I check the AFM w/my meter and it is within the spec.
The car ran last Friday but had a non charging Alternator, a new Alt was $ 78.00 from Amazon or $24 for the brush/ reg from the same so replace new it was.
I dropped a running motor to replace the Alternator w/ a new unit, as well as the clutch. Now it won't start. I will go through and re inspect all vacuum hoses again and follow your instructions as well.
During the restoration of this running S/B I found jumpers up front: pump to the lights, I repaired that and just hooked up the wire at the term in fuse block that was disconn. |
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01capevwnut Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2010 Posts: 23 Location: Cape Coral FL.
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Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:23 am Post subject: Double relays |
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Dumb question, does that lower diode go to the bl/rd fuel pump line? |
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