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DubNuts
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2009
Posts: 194
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 Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:15 pm Post subject: Engine Transplant or Not? |
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Hi Guys, sorry if I’m repeating another post but I’m kind of new here and searched but couldn’t find adequate answers to my questions.
I’m a fairly new Vanagon owner “1987 Westy” with a little over 150k on the odometer, the engine is still holding together ok but not sure how much life we can expect? The vehicle has been cared for by the previous owners and although routine maintenance and serviced it still must have a life span expectancy?
The reasons for my concerns are that we plan on traveling extensively later this summer / fall and when or if these problems will popup and what problems might one watch for?
Not to mention the forever lack of engine power, etc. So in short would it be best to consider a engine transplant something like a Subaru 2.5 at this time or should I continue to pamper the current underpowered German Iron?
I guess I just never read the do's or do not's of a transplant. Looks like most of you guys perfer the Subaru's? As for a transplant I'm capable of doing one myself.
Thanks for any help. |
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sc-surfer
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2005
Posts: 865
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Holy $h*t, use the search. That horse has been beaten to death, resurrected, beaten to within an inch of his life, then beaten to death again just for good measure. Then burned on the pyres just for fun. 
Oh ya, welcome!! We're not really all that bad here.
_________________
'89 Syncro Westy
Catalog of Vans at SDM 2010
Westfalia, Syncro & Tristar Reproduction decals here.
* * * Coming Soon: Washable seat covers for westy bench seat...keep the pets off the upholstery! * * * |
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sc-surfer
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2005
Posts: 865
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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camo westy
Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2006
Posts: 400
Location: Madison, Va
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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To re-cap;
Plenty of very happy Subaru Swap owners out there
Very scienced out, follow ttthe directions and it works
Better fuel mileage, more power, quieter, dependable as a stone.
Swap will always cost more than a rebuild.
Subaru swaps have become 'normal' enough that they seem to increase a van's value.
for what this is worth, I have never ever heard of a Vanagon owner who went back to a WBX motor after doing a swap. |
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DubNuts
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2009
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Gee's guys thanks for the sarcasm, and also the help. Hey how would one know if they didn't ask? And I did use the search, it just got confussing reading the many post, as non really summed it up.
By the way for those that may want to be helpful what are the common problems to watch for on a 1987 Westy. |
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mtnwater
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2008
Posts: 215
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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If considering a transplant, look no further than www.bostig.com
You won't find a more complete, well engineered, well supported, fantastically simple vanagon conversion option.
The subaru conversions are good, but the benefits of the bostig conversion are many. Lots of info on the bostig website - check it out. |
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campism
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007
Posts: 4492
Location: Richmond VA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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"By the way for those that may want to be helpful what are the common problems to watch for on a 1987 Westy."
DubNuts,
I also have an '87 Westy and pay attention here to find out what to watch for. Sooner or later you will hear CHANGE YOUR FUEL LINES, so plan to do it. I found a leak in mine, so it does happen. Don't let it destroy your van. Everything else you can find out at your leisure. Good luck! |
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ChesterKV
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2005
Posts: 1725
Location: El Cerrito, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Dude,
You haven't said which state you're in. If it's California then only the Subaru 2.2 (performed Kennedy Engineering-style only) or a VW 1.8t are allowed. If you're in any other state, the sky is the limit.
I personally would recommend either the Subaru 2.5 or the Bostig (Euro Ford) solutions if you are legally able to pursue them.
Have fun,
Chester
_________________
1984 Wolfsburg 7-passenger stock sunroof
1992 Subaru Legacy EJ22 boxer motor installed.... van is now sold.... currently playing with a 1987 Toyota MR2 with 1.6 liter twin-cam motor. Better than the Subaru boxers....... I'm impressed. Well, okay, in an "apples and oranges" kind of way.  |
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ProvoCyclist
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2004
Posts: 593
Location: Murray, Utah
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Hey DubNuts:
CHANGE YOUR FUEL LINES RIGHT NOW!! LIKE NOW AS IN NOW!!
_________________
Clark
Current: 1986 Tintop GL 2wd, stock 2.1L, manual trans, Flash Silver LP7Y.
Past: 1985 Sunroof GL, 2wd, Subaru 3.3L, manual trans, resprayed to Diamond Silver L97A |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16504
Location: Brookeville, MD
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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If you are not in CA you have two really good choices. The Bostig conversion is very good and gets you 130 HP, while the Subaru 2.5 will get you 165 HP. If 130 HP is enough then I think that the Bostig conversion is likely more plug and play. I've got the 2.5 Subie in my '87 and love it.
BTW, Change the fuel lines, now. Really, this is the major issue with these vehicles. PLEASE order the kit and do it now. It only takes a couple of hours at most.
Have fun. Don't worry about the perceived sarcasm. Everyone here really is helpful. 
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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madspaniard
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Joined: August 18, 2008
Posts: 3795
Location: Alameda, CA
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ftp2leta
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Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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WestyBob
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 2346
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Engine Transplant or Not? |
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Well, this question always elicits a lot of good but differing opinions. I'd say the first step is to address a number of issues regarding the '87 vanagon such as how do you intend to use, how long do you intend to keep, how much money do you want to spend, etc. ? Once this is layed out before you then you can address the engine issue.
If you're not a gearhead I'd recommend for starters you have a good mechanic go over the engine mechanical and fuel systems, then fix or do preventive maintenance. This might be a cheaper way to get started.
If you've already decided you want something with more juice than stock then I'd agree with those who recommend a subie or zetec. There are other good options but these two seem to be most common. I've got three with subie 2.5 convers and have never looked back. I have a fourth with stock but when that wears out I may go zetec.
But in the end for you and all of us it just boils down to what you want the rig to do for you and what you can afford to spend. |
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66 dormi
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2006
Posts: 606
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:47 am Post subject: |
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I posted the same thing on here right after I got my 88 go 4 pages back and you can read all about the Bostig conversion the subaru all though very very nice is too expensive.(sorry Ben)
According to the folks on here the WBX has a life expectancy of 160 000 miles there was a thread on that too, but Ive talked to a few owners who have exceeded that by a long shot theres a fellow from GA on here with 250k on his!
Im on the same boat I just got my 88 and im still not to sure but im leaning to the Bostig it will cost the same as a WBX with all new electrics and ancillaries until then Im just going to keep on truckin till she blows
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DORMOBILE TOP WANTED!!!!
1978 westy daily driver
1960 panel camper project
Mini R53 bob the tomato |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10078
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| 78 westy wrote: |
According to the folks on here the WBX has a life expectancy of 160 000 miles there was a thread on that too, but Ive talked to a few owners who have exceeded that by a long shot theres a fellow from GA on here with 250k on his!
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Pretty much true, but if the point is being made then a little clarification is in order:
2.1 wbx's have been known to have a pretty strong possibility of rod-bolt failure due to VW stupidly using a stretch-type rod bolt. This is only true of 2.1 wbx (late-'85 to '91). Quite a few 2.1's have had this failure, which tends to destroy the main reusable engine cores for the most part, and the ones that do tend to do it around 150-180k miles. That said, many 2.1's go much much further and never experience this failure. It seems to have some correlation with transmission type, and the dominant type of use the van experienced.
1.9 engines ('83.5 to end of '85) do not have this problem and commonly go over 250k miles. They have the same rods as the 2.1's, but VW used a normal "solid" rod bolt in the earlier engines. I have never even heard of a rod failure in a 1.9, unless it was due to loss of lubrication due to other causes.
Fully-rebuilt wbx's also will not have the rod bolt problem, as every reputable rebuilder uses the old-style 1.9 rod bolts, or even better hardware in that application. Other than the rod bolts in 2.1's, the bottom ends of wbx's in general are extremely stout.
Head replacements (or recent tune-ups, for those out shopping for a used van) do not constitute a full rebuild, despite the fuzzy claims of many sellers. Caveat emptor.
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Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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devesvws
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Joined: January 05, 2004
Posts: 1540
Location: madison va
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ftp2leta
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| 78 westy wrote: |
I posted the same thing on here right after I got my 88 go 4 pages back and you can read all about the Bostig conversion the subaru all though very very nice is too expensive.(sorry Ben)
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No need to be sorry.
I sell a complete powerplant, tested and re-tested, on top, i make sure everything is tip top around the conversion. People bring me a van, and a week or so later almost have a new vehicle, this as a price! And if i wnat to stay in business, i have to charge the right price that will keep me in business. So it may sound expensive for you but not for others. After 25 or so conversion, i don't take the new one for granted and i never will, Each one is an adventure. It may look easy and simple on my site but it's far from the truth.
Most of my engine are 2005-2007 with about no millage, of course they cost way more than an old 2.2L.
I don't cut any corner on the conversion. So i attract a different bread of customers. The one that choose to keep their westy instead of investing in another 60-70K camper.
Bostig has gone the right way with their kit, not so long ago they where selling 10K conversion.
Hans from Vanaru is working on a similar project, a full Subi kit.
Small Car is great but they still don't have a complete kit with very good instruction a support like Bostig as.
So the only way for DIY is to buy bit's and bit's form different vendors and join a list like the Yahoo Subi list.
We don't leave in a perfect world, no conversion are perfect, same for the original Waser engine. Far from being perfect. Anf on top, there is always place for improvement.
EX: i didn't like that much that the speed sensor for Subaru conversion was on the drive axle, not that it's that bad but it's sometime at risk (rock, water submersion....) Hans just found a great way to use the VW stock speedometer (cruise control disk/magnet) by adding a new sender that fit in perfectly, on top, all Vanagon have that disk.
But again, nothing is perfect, if you break the speedo cable your loose the speed sensor signal to the ECU. Nothing dramatic as it will go in safe mode but still.
Bostig is also thinking hard with their V2 conversion.
Tenc and other are working hard to built a better Wasser.
there will always be the "Budget" owner and the one with more money.
As much as 5K seem to be the magic number, there is all kind of option.
It's you, the customer that need to think about those carefully.
Cheers, Ben
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Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
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FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta |
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66 dormi
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Joined: September 06, 2006
Posts: 606
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:58 am Post subject: |
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Well said!
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1978 westy daily driver
1960 panel camper project
Mini R53 bob the tomato |
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2Dokas
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Joined: October 09, 2004
Posts: 752
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ChesterKV wrote: |
Hey Dude,
You haven't said which state you're in. If it's California then only the Subaru 2.2 (performed Kennedy Engineering-style only) or a VW 1.8t are allowed. If you're in any other state, the sky is the limit.
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Chester, are you saying the 1.8t is a state wide legal carb transplant?
I have seen or read about 10 or so svx's in CA and several 2.5's. According to the Bostig site there are at least 2 in the bay area but see below....
part is about where in CA you live I guess or at least where your address for the registration is located.
part is knowing which bar station to go to and knowing the referees.
no beef here, just looking for clarification
peter
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87 Doka 2WD Ej22,
56 Convertible |
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ChesterKV
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2005
Posts: 1725
Location: El Cerrito, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| 2Dokas wrote: |
| ChesterKV wrote: |
Hey Dude,
You haven't said which state you're in. If it's California then only the Subaru 2.2 (performed Kennedy Engineering-style only) or a VW 1.8t are allowed. If you're in any other state, the sky is the limit.
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Chester, are you saying the 1.8t is a state wide legal carb transplant?
I have seen or read about 10 or so svx's in CA and several 2.5's. According to the Bostig site there are at least 2 in the bay area but see below....
part is about where in CA you live I guess or at least where your address for the registration is located.
part is knowing which bar station to go to and knowing the referees.
no beef here, just looking for clarification
peter |
Peter dude,
Only the Subaru 2.2 has the official CARB approval in California as you know. I've seen/heard of enough 1.8t transplants that 'pass' that I casually included them in the list. However, I wouldn't be surprised if it's as 'passable' as the Subaru SVX conversion which is 'technically' not allowed unless you use the full stock exhaust, blah, blah, blah. So yeah, if you know the 'right' inspection station, the 'right' inspector, and can speak in tongues at the right time, anything can pass....... I guess. 
So probably scratch the 1.8t from the list. Only the Subaru 2.2, from 1990 to 1994 is fully kosher in California. Everything else is a crap shoot.
California uber alles !
- Chester
_________________
1984 Wolfsburg 7-passenger stock sunroof
1992 Subaru Legacy EJ22 boxer motor installed.... van is now sold.... currently playing with a 1987 Toyota MR2 with 1.6 liter twin-cam motor. Better than the Subaru boxers....... I'm impressed. Well, okay, in an "apples and oranges" kind of way. |
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did you buy the camper because you love 
if so keep it