Dumb suspension questions

[vanagonforever]

I've been reading many of the threads here about larger wheels, lifting 2wd Vanagons, and improving the suspension system. My problem is that while I know what I want my ride to feel like, I do not know the words to describe it or the parts required to achieve it. I'd like to figure out some thing that I can do to my Westy to improve the ride but until I get the lingo down it is hard to know what I need to buy.

What I want is for my 2wd Westy to handle more like my 96 Toyota Tacoma 4x4. Basically I want my Vanagon to feel like a truck instead of a car. I want to drive over bumps without slowing down. I want to have a nice stiff turn. I want to have confidence in my handling. I also miss the ground clearance that I get with my Tacoma. I wouldn't mind a higher top speed as well.

What I have now feels quite sloppy. I know my biggest problem is that the drop arms on my roll bar are screwed up. I understand that this is going to ruin my turning as is and must be fixed but I'm not convinced that will give me what I want. In general my Vanagon feels really heavy. That is probably because it IS really heavy. What I want to know though is if there is a way to make it feel like it isn't. I want to drive on rough roads with confidence Instead of feeling like I am going to roll.

Does this make any sense? What am I looking for?

Here is what I "think" I need. I need a more powerful engine before I go putting on larger wheels because larger wheels are going to zap the little bit of acceleration my sad little 1.9 can muster. With more power I can start thinking about upgrading my wheels. I'd like a larger wheel to get a higher top speed with stock gearing and whatever that "improved handling" is that I hear people talking about. I'd also like a tall AT tire like the BFG AT. I run 235/75/15 BFG ATs on my Tacoma and love them. With that larger wheel and tire I feel like I'll probably want to upgrade to the big break kit since I am already uncomfortable with my stock break setup. I have 15" wheels on my Tacoma but I understand that the big break kits have issues with 15" steel wheels. Is it better to go to 16"? I'm guessing that the big problem with 16" and BGF ATs is that I'm going to rub without some lift. The GoWesty springs sound awesome but I'm bothered by the maxed out camber adjustments that I hear people mentioning. Then I start reading about air bags and blistens and blah blah blah.

Wonderful Samba members, how do I get my 2wd 1.9L Westy to handle more like my 96 Tacoma 4x4? If this is not possible then what are the words that suspension people use to describe the ride of a light 4x4 pickup?

Thanks!
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1986 2WD 2.1L WBX Vanagon Weekender
1983.5 1.9L WBX Vanagon Westfalia

[Neo-Nomad]

[MsTaboo]

First, get yourself a Syncro.

Then use the search.

After that, all it takes is cash!
_________________
Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec

The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
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[PDXWesty]

Driving a VW takes a certain mindset. When I got my first aircooled van fifteen years ago, it came with a book called "How to keep your Volkswagen Alive" by John Muir. In it he describes how to drive a Volkswagen. He says "If your in a hurry to get somewhere, this isn't the car you should be driving" That has stuck with me to this day. Driving a VW has always been about the journey, not the destination. When I'm in a hurry to get somewhere and that's the goal, I drive a modern car. When I want to relax, escape the trappings of life, and enjoy how I get somewhere, I drive my van. It's far more pleasurable.

You ccould probably spend thousands of dollars to coax the ride your looking for out of a 26 year old vehicle, or you can appreciate it and enjoy it for what it is. There is a certain amount of improvement in handling you can get with some moderate upgrades, stiffer ride and better clearance, but it isn't and should never be a Toyota.

[Wildthings]

Sounds like cut and paste to me. Cut the body off of your 96 Tacoma and paste a Vanagon one on there instead. You will have every thing you want, engine, tires, ride, and brakes.

[vanagonforever]

Yes, I'd love a sweet 4x4 Vanagon with five reverse gears - that is exactly the answer I was looking for.

I hear you about the VW mindset and I agree. I'm not expecting my fully loaded camper to drive like a compact four wheel drive pickup. However, I think a lot could be done to my Vanagon to make the ride more to my liking. I bought the Vanagon to travel, to camp in, to wander in. Using it in this way takes me off the road from time to time. My Tacoma has taught me that ground clearance, a decent set of tires, and careful handling can get you pretty far off the road without even turning on the four wheel drive. I'd like to gain some of that confidence with my Vanagon. I'm not trying to go mudding at 80mph - I'd just like to feel like I can take a logging road from time to time.

Look, I love my Vanagon. With the exception of the handling, I love every little tick and quirk about it. Yes I love the ride in my Tacoma but the ride is pretty much the only thing I love about it. It isn't fairy dust and magic that makes my Tacoma handle like it does. I'm just trying to understand the qualities of the equipment that make it feel like it does. I know the weight has a lot to do with it but that isn't the end of the story. I see plenty of you guys doing the sorts of things I am talking about to their rigs yet there is very little concise information on this board about how to do it. There must be a way to get more of a syncro feel in my 2wd.
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1986 2WD 2.1L WBX Vanagon Weekender
1983.5 1.9L WBX Vanagon Westfalia

[mightyart]

So you want to stiffen up the suspension some, because your Westy feels mushier then your toyota truck.
It shouldn't be that mushy and it hasn't anything to do with the fact that the Vanagon weights more. (dumptrucks have real stiff suspensions)
What kind of tires you got on the Van?

[joetiger]

I've always found the handling of Vanagons to be a major positive.

For example, when driving on two lane, winding mountain roads, I (before the Subie motor) always had trucks on my ass all the way up the hills. But once we'd get to a downhill stretch, I could leave almost any truck or van in the dust due to the fact that my Vanagons have always seemed sure-footed and handled curves far better than anything of relative size that was produced in the USA or Japan.

Now, with the bigger motor, I can generally hold my own, unless I get stuck in front of a local Porsche 911 club-drive, which happened last year on Colorado Highway 7 somewhere between Nederland and Estes Park. I got lots of waves along with a few frustrated honks. What can you do.

If money is not a primary concern, I would replace everything that you can replace in the front end and get stiffer springs and better shocks. A lot of people swear by 15 or 16-inch wheels, but I'm fairly content with 14's and stiff tires.

Also, the more you drive it, the more confidence you'll gain in its characteristics. Yes, it can feel top-heavy, but once you really get a feel for it, you'll realize that Vanagons handle pretty well for being a box-on-wheels.
_________________
Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present

www.josephtrussell.com

[iltis74]

What shocks are you running and what shape are they in? Assuming that the bushings and ball joints and such are all healthy the shocks are probably the easiest way to dramatically change the suspension feel. Tires can make a huge difference also. When you check over your suspension run through your steering as well, couplers and tierods and anything that moves. Obviously you need to take care of the end link, but if you still want less body roll you can always upgrade to a thicker rollbar and even add a rear. The downside here is that by tying the sides together you essentially loose articulation over uneven terrain. There are threads on this forum that go into great detail about how rollbars will change the ride.

When you say the Vanagon feels heavy do you mean top heavy? It's confusing because you also mention you want it to feel like a truck.

You can lift just about any suspension with a little thought and a welder, but frankly I think the GoWesty springs are going to be hard to beat for a 2wd.

[vanagonforever]

Thanks Mightyart and others.

I've got Continental Vanco-8 185/14 Cs on stock steel wheels. When I bought the van it has passenger tires on it that felt horrible. Putting those Vancos on it made a huge difference but its still not quite where I'd like it.

I also know that my anti-roll bar is broken and this is hurting things. I'm going to fix that before I start buying things but I'd still love a little more ground clearance.

_________________
1986 2WD 2.1L WBX Vanagon Weekender
1983.5 1.9L WBX Vanagon Westfalia

[vanagonforever]

[joetiger]

Just one more thing, in my last Vanagon, the power steering rack blew its seals, and instead of replacing it with another power rack, I found a manual rack in great shape in a pick-n-pull yard. I also put in the larger non-power steering wheel, which was great for actually seeing the instrument cluster.

While paralllel parking took some getting used to without power, the steering was much tighter and more responsive, especially in the mountains.

When my power steering rack craps out in my latest Vanagon, I'm going to do the switch again.

I don't know if anybody else has had a similar result, but it worked great for me.
_________________
Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present

www.josephtrussell.com

[mightyart]

I think you just need to fix what you have, can't expect much from a broken sway bay, and it sounds like you have worn out shocks.
If you go over a bump and the van continues to bounce more then once after it you probably need new shocks.
Shocks are dampers for the springs, without shocks you would be riding around all bouncy and dangerous on just springs like a bobblehead.
As far as the brakes go it's the same thing, check them replace the worn parts and make sure the rears are adjusted.
It spounds like your van just needs some attention, not a bunch of changes, if you want it higher get taller springs.
If your rear is sagging get air bags, they will stiffen up the rear some also.

[presslab]

I wouldn't expect your van to handle very well with a broken end link.

I like my Vanagon to handle like a truck as well. I have Koni adjustable shocks, stiff springs, and oversize sway bars. It handles very well, and I don't slow down for bumps.

Just this last weekend I drove quickly on a muddy, rutted dirt road and the van was great. I also drove quickly down Hwy 1 along the coast, passing many cars.
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1986 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
1988 Subaru GL-10 EJ20G --- 2000 Honda XR650L
2010 Titus El Guapo --- 2011 On-One 456 Ti

[the caveman]

You probably don't have the proper rated tires for it. westy's weight quite a bit so having a tire that doesn't deflect but does work properly is the first step. Look into the stickies here for what to look for. Next is getting the suspension looked at by someone who knows these trucks. If it has lots of milage and a hard life ,replace the springs, they are worn, get uprated ones to hold all the weight. Next, get the best shocks you can afford, i recommend Bilsteins, but there are others you can use. If you get to this point and still think it could be better, replace the front roll bar with a larger one and install one on the rear. All this will tighten up the handling, but with a smooth controlled ride.

[vanagonforever]

I've ordered a new front sway bar from aircooled.net along with some rear blisten shocks. I'm just going to install them and run them for a few months before I decide to do anything else. Thanks for all the help folks.
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1986 2WD 2.1L WBX Vanagon Weekender
1983.5 1.9L WBX Vanagon Westfalia

[hiram6]

A number of folks have asked about your tires, but you've not answered. Maybe you think this is not critical, we're trying to tell you that it is.

Tell us brand, model, size, and psi. We may be able to help you out.
_________________
1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited

You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning.

[vanagonforever]

[hiram6]

[vanagonforever]

No worries. Like I said, the ride got 100% better once I switched to properly rated tires. It was truly a nightmare with those passenger tires. In fact I had one of my rear tires blow out soon after I bought the van at highway speeds. I'm incredibly lucky I didn't roll. Luckily I was able to maintain control and pull over. Since that event I am a HUGE believer in properly rated tires that are checked regularly for uneven wear and pressure. I've also learned to read the manufacture date. The tires that came on my Vanagon were Ps, more than 5 years old, and had far less tread than I would run now. Live and learn! I'm just thankful that I was able to live.
_________________
1986 2WD 2.1L WBX Vanagon Weekender
1983.5 1.9L WBX Vanagon Westfalia