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scotth17
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2012
Posts: 335
Location: Bedford Texas
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 Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd like to buy a vowel.... |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26776
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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I got 75% of that. Nice to see others trying different modules. Ford duraspark one box is is 40$, gm four pin is 40$, toyota module is 200$, they do the same thing, they really do!. Supply and demand I guess  |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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one of the most common ignition errors I see if folks running too much plug gap. If you don't have a coil on plug ignition, run .024-.028" plug gap. Larger is NOT WORTH IT. I can't tell you how many folks I've troubleshooted that had large gaps, which caused the spark to jump out somewhere else (path of least resistance).
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miniman82
Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 9515
Location: Southern Maryland
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| Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Careful John, you'll get Scott Novak all bent out of shape at you. 
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Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
| Glenn wrote: |
| satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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donnmon
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2013
Posts: 82
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Does anyone else use a 123Tune distributor? |
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donnmon
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2013
Posts: 82
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyone? |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| never heard of it. I like ones that fit the pocket ,work corectly,and fit the needs of the motor. |
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donnmon
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2013
Posts: 82
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.123ignition.nl/products.php?id=50&lang=eng
I bought one because I was curious about them but I was then surprised at what I could do with the thing.
They are expensive but I think well worth the money for people who want a programmable distributor, a useable data logging function and no technical difficulties.
data logging analysis can be done with excel so perfect for the accountants out there. |
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jdcool4
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2010
Posts: 98
Location: Temperance MI
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| Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Its simular to the Magna Spark Digital |
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donnmon
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2013
Posts: 82
Location: UK
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jdcool4
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2010
Posts: 98
Location: Temperance MI
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| Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| I dont have one but im thinking of ordering one very soon. There about the same price as many other distibutors if you include the price of spring kits and everything. 386.95 for wires coil vacume plates and link cable |
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jdcool4
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2010
Posts: 98
Location: Temperance MI
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| Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Can you map the vacume vs rpm on the 123 tune? |
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donnmon
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2013
Posts: 82
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:07 am Post subject: |
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You sure can. And you can log it too. I have a setup with IDFs that I can use for balancing airflow/linkages.
As far as I can see you can do all the things that you can with the Magnaspark Digital but as I said I have no first hand experience with that distributor.
One advantage that I can see is that you do not need to convert from USB to serial. It appears you have to do this with the Magnaspark Digital. Plus I have no problems using this with Windows 8.
I am not sure there are any US dealers for 123Tune however. I would be really interested to loan one out but I am not sure how I can do this without getting stung. |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| CB perf has a black box that conects to justabout any dist and does about the same thing as far as tuning the dist curve,check it out to see what all it can doo. |
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jdcool4
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2010
Posts: 98
Location: Temperance MI
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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123ignitionusa.com has them but they are 429.95 for the standard version. 469.95 for the tune version. Im guessing thats the full mappable version?
Ive looked at the Black Box I was worried that it would only be as accurate as the distubtor driveing it. Would that be a problem with the Black Box |
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donnmon
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2013
Posts: 82
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| jdcool4 wrote: |
123ignitionusa.com has them but they are 429.95 for the standard version. 469.95 for the tune version. Im guessing thats the full mappable version?
Ive looked at the Black Box I was worried that it would only be as accurate as the distubtor driveing it. Would that be a problem with the Black Box |
I am inclined to agree about that however I am biased in this respect because I already have experience of the 123Tune.
I am sure that there are 'normal' distributors out there that have excellent stability I just cant see how they can match the 123Tune. I assume that you would need to disable both the centrifugal and mechanical advance on the distributor and just use it as a cam driven crank sensor essentially so maybe that might help some. Also the points would not be subject to voltage returning from the coil so no worries about a bad condenser or pitted points etc.
I can't see if it allows data logging which I have found to be a most useful feature of the 123Tune. Perhaps Mark will be able to tell us. For a budget the black box seems to be a great idea. Certainly it seems to be cheaper than any other programmable option.
I usually log very long journeys and as long as I make a mental note of the time that I am interested in analysing I can open the log in MS Excel, filter or copy the chunk of data I am interested in and see what was happening with RPM, MAP, advance, case/oil temperature, coil current and rev limiter. Everything is logged against the time of day which I find useful. Another way I use it is to filter for load (or at least highest manifold pressure) and look at the advance for higher load situations just to be sure my advance is sensible in these situations.
I wish this could be done with the Innovate LC1 because it would make analysis so much easier. Hopefully someone will tell me it can.
$469.95 (£293.11) is really a great price (123Tune R-V-V is indeed the mappable one for VWs) compared to UK prices, you guys really have the luck over there. |
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Pat D
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2004
Posts: 414
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| donnmon wrote: |
| jdcool4 wrote: |
123ignitionusa.com has them but they are 429.95 for the standard version. 469.95 for the tune version. Im guessing thats the full mappable version?
Ive looked at the Black Box I was worried that it would only be as accurate as the distubtor driveing it. Would that be a problem with the Black Box |
I am inclined to agree about that however I am biased in this respect because I already have experience of the 123Tune.
I am sure that there are 'normal' distributors out there that have excellent stability I just cant see how they can match the 123Tune. I assume that you would need to disable both the centrifugal and mechanical advance on the distributor and just use it as a cam driven crank sensor essentially so maybe that might help some. Also the points would not be subject to voltage returning from the coil so no worries about a bad condenser or pitted points etc.
I can't see if it allows data logging which I have found to be a most useful feature of the 123Tune. Perhaps Mark will be able to tell us. For a budget the black box seems to be a great idea. Certainly it seems to be cheaper than any other programmable option.
I usually log very long journeys and as long as I make a mental note of the time that I am interested in analysing I can open the log in MS Excel, filter or copy the chunk of data I am interested in and see what was happening with RPM, MAP, advance, case/oil temperature, coil current and rev limiter. Everything is logged against the time of day which I find useful. Another way I use it is to filter for load (or at least highest manifold pressure) and look at the advance for higher load situations just to be sure my advance is sensible in these situations.
I wish this could be done with the Innovate LC1 because it would make analysis so much easier. Hopefully someone will tell me it can.
$469.95 (£293.11) is really a great price (123Tune R-V-V is indeed the mappable one for VWs) compared to UK prices, you guys really have the luck over there. |
It looks like this distributor has a 5x6 timing map, 5 rpm boundaries and 6 load? The Black Box has a 21x21 configurable spark table so the resolution is much higher. We did not incorporate data logging into the Black Box in order to keep the retail cost as low as possible.
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Pat, Im too fast slow me downs! |
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jdcool4
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2010
Posts: 98
Location: Temperance MI
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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I really thinking hard on the magna spark digital for under 400$ you get coil,wires,distubutor,serial adaptor,and vacume adaptor plates. There is a little bit more information around on it as well.
Im surprized that you cant ship from the US to the UK and get it cheaper then from a importer there. |
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donnmon
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2013
Posts: 82
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Pat D wrote: |
It looks like this distributor has a 5x6 timing map, 5 rpm boundaries and 6 load? The Black Box has a 21x21 configurable spark table so the resolution is much higher. We did not incorporate data logging into the Black Box in order to keep the retail cost as low as possible. |
Thanks for the info Pat.
I wonder if you could explain more about this because I have no access to the Magnaspark software as far as I can see so I am not familiar with how the spark table is manipulated.
The 123Tune has no spark table and instead uses a graph. Both the RPM graph and MAP graph has an option of up to 10 points on the curve. I am not sure how this translates to a resolution in the Magnaspark sense.
If you want to compare the 123Tune software you can download it here.
http://www.123ignition.nl/products.php?id=50&lang=eng |
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donnmon
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2013
Posts: 82
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| jdcool4 wrote: |
I really thinking hard on the magna spark digital for under 400$ you get coil,wires,distubutor,serial adaptor,and vacume adaptor plates. There is a little bit more information around on it as well.
Im surprized that you cant ship from the US to the UK and get it cheaper then from a importer there. |
I wish it were so. I have imported some stuff from the US that we cannot get here but we have to pay quite a lot of import duty as well as taxes so by the time we have paid these and the costs of clearing the goods I am never sure it is worth it.
Some things we just cannot get over here like the valve conditioning equipment that you would buy easily from Goodson or Cylinder Head Supplies for instance. For this type of stuff we have no choice but to take the hit. |
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