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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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 Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: H30/31 PICT with SVDA distributor |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| I used an H30/31 with my DVDA autostick distributor for years with no problems. This goes against TWO things the samba claims. |
Hmmm..., as far as I am aware all of the autostick transmission cars ran engines with an SVDA distributor not a DVDA.
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1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
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wet_bread
Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2015
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: H30/31 PICT with SVDA distributor |
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| tasb wrote: |
| sb001 wrote: |
| I used an H30/31 with my DVDA autostick distributor for years with no problems. This goes against TWO things the samba claims. |
Hmmm..., as far as I am aware all of the autostick transmission cars ran engines with an SVDA distributor not a DVDA. |
I can't find any reference to the DVDA with an auto-stick. But 'runs' and 'runs well' are certainly up for debate. Anyone? |
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wcfvw69 
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: H30/31 PICT with SVDA distributor |
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| wet_bread wrote: |
| tasb wrote: |
| sb001 wrote: |
| I used an H30/31 with my DVDA autostick distributor for years with no problems. This goes against TWO things the samba claims. |
Hmmm..., as far as I am aware all of the autostick transmission cars ran engines with an SVDA distributor not a DVDA. |
I can't find any reference to the DVDA with an auto-stick. But 'runs' and 'runs well' are certainly up for debate. Anyone? |
This is so open to interpretation. What some VW owners feel is a great running VW, an experienced VW owner may feel it runs terrible. Look at the thousands of VW owners who run 009's and 34-3 carbs and will argue "they run just fine". Put that same owner in a VW with a 34-3 and matching DVDA or SVDA and they may have another opinion of how "well" their VW runs.
I ran a Bug DVDA distributor in my bay bus. It ran fine though the advance and ramp seemed far too quick. I then restored a correct BUS DVDA and installed it. With the correct bus DVDA matched to the correct German Solex 34-3, it was a massively better driving bus.
So many current classic VW owners have bought VW's with miss matched carb/distributor combos. Their engines have no thermostat or flaps installed. They have non working carb preheat and clogged heat risers to the carb manifold. I bet many of these owners think their VW runs great.
Now, put them in a VW with all those issues corrected and they'd shit their pants at the huge difference in driveability, acceleration, cold engine running, etc..
So many decades have passed since these cars were delivered new. Very few VW's today on the road have ALL the parts those smart VW engineers deemed important. As a result, very few current owners really KNOW how these cars are suppose to run/drive.
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:56 am Post subject: Re: H30/31 PICT with SVDA distributor |
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| tasb wrote: |
| sb001 wrote: |
| I used an H30/31 with my DVDA autostick distributor for years with no problems. This goes against TWO things the samba claims. |
Hmmm..., as far as I am aware all of the autostick transmission cars ran engines with an SVDA distributor not a DVDA. |
I am currently running a Bosch 113-905-205 AE autostick distributor on my 69:
Both the old volks home website and the Bosch tuneup chart list the correct vacuum canister for this distributor to be the 07138 canister (837 vacuum arm designation):
http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm#A1970A
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/Bosch_Tune_Up_Parts/Bosch_Tune_Up_Parts.pdf
This is the canister I am currently running on my car (note the "837" arm designation):
Although the Old Volks Home makes no reference to it having a vacuum retard signal, it is quite obviously a DVDA canister:
I don't know about the AA-AC, I don't even think AB and AC even exist as I have never seen a single one either in person or for sale in the classifeds here, nor have I ever come across any postings where someone is running one.
As for "running" vs "running well," I was using the 30/31 with it for years and it ran just fine. I should know I've been driving this damn car for 30 years and it amazes me that someone with no personal experience running this setup would come on here and argue about whether I know if it "ran well."  I would think I would know if the car is "jerking into gear" using the 30/31 which it never did. Sorry to rain on the parade but the 30/31 ran just fine with this AE DVDA distributor. The only reason I changed to the 30 PICT 3 I am running now was because I wanted to be period correct. |
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:14 am Post subject: Re: H30/31 PICT with SVDA distributor |
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Take easy there brother. I know it's not easy to not take something personal sometimes, but in this case you should consider it. Neither the oldvolkshome list nor Andy's indicate that the Autotrans distributor you are sharing with us was a DVDA. You've shown us that there is one which is great. the data should be updated.It would be nice to find some specifications for that "837" canister.
Bill's comments about performance still generally hold very true.
Off the top of my head I am not sure of the date at which the semi auto trans VW's ended and the full automatic cars began.
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Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: H30/31 PICT with SVDA distributor |
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| tasb wrote: |
Take easy there brother. I know it's not easy to not take something personal sometimes, but in this case you should consider it. Neither the oldvolkshome list nor Andy's indicate that the Autotrans distributor you are sharing with us was a DVDA. You've shown us that there is one which is great. the data should be updated.It would be nice to find some specifications for that "837" canister.
Bill's comments about performance still generally hold very true.
Off the top of my head I am not sure of the date at which the semi auto trans VW's ended and the full automatic cars began. |
Sorry tasb the last part of my response above was not directed at you; rather the couple of posts on here that imply I might not know whether my car is "running well" or not, even though I've been driving this exact car since about 1985. Of course the engine compartment has gone through a few different variations since new-- the original 1500 burned in an engine fire back in 1990, so I have no idea what the original carb/ distributor setup was on it- I didn't pay attention to those kinds of things back then. It was replaced with a 1600 single port AS21 case, the H30/31, and the AE distributor around 1994, and they stayed up to a few years ago when I sold the 30/31 on here and went to the 30 PICT 3.
Old Volks Home wesbsite makes no mention at all of an AB or AC autostick distributor- they skip straight from the AA on the 1969 autostick to AD/AE on the 1970 autostick. I guess that doesn't mean they don't exist but I have never seen either of those ever, anywhere. If the 68 autostick used the 113-905-205P (very first autostick distributor ever) and then 1969 used the AA, and then 70 went to (at least) the AD, where could an AB or AC even have come into play? They made three different autostick distributors for one year??
One more thing I will mention concerning SVDA vs DVDA-- ALL the autostick modfied Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetors I have ever seen had the extra retard port on the back. Which would indicate the matching distributors for those were in fact DVDA. But I don't know about any earlier autostick carburetors.
I have posted about the confusion surrounding the autsotick distributors, related vacuum cansters, and whether they are SVDA or DVDA before, and it always ends the same--with no one being able to provide concrete facts of what was offered on what model and when. I'd like to know just as much as anyone else--more even. But all the evidence seems circumstantial. If someone can clear it all up I'd be ecstatic to run whatever is correct for my car. |
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: H30/31 PICT with SVDA distributor |
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If your happy with what you are running then that is good enough for me.
I've been adding to a weird oddball stock distributor thread in the bus forum a several years now. It's gotten to the point where most if not all of the stock distributors have been covered. Lately I've been coming across distributors that were issued to places other than the USA. The findings and data have been added to Andy, Glutamodo's database,. Perhaps, this is the case with the 113 905 205 AB and AC distributors. Time will likely tell.
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Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: H30/31 PICT with SVDA distributor |
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| tasb wrote: |
If your happy with what you are running then that is good enough for me.
I've been adding to a weird oddball stock distributor thread in the bus forum a several years now. It's gotten to the point where most if not all of the stock distributors have been covered. Lately I've been coming across distributors that were issued to places other than the USA. The findings and data have been added to Andy, Glutamodo's database,. Perhaps, this is the case with the 113 905 205 AB and AC distributors. Time will likely tell. |
I know there were other distributors ending in AB and AC but I have never seen any 113-905-205 AB or AC which would have been in the autostick lineup, they are listed on the Bosch chart for years 1969 and 1970 but I don't think they exist.
Both 113-905-205 AD and 113-905-205 AE are listed for year 1970 on the Old Volks Home site, with both using the same 07138 canister. But again, OVH makes no mention of a vacuum retard signal for this canister. The Bosch tuneup chart lists this canister as a DVDA, with vacuum arm number 837 which is what I have and mine is obviously a DVDA. Problem is, there is no actual part number on the canister itself for me to confirm I actually have the 07138 canister--the only thing i have to go by is the vacuum arm number.
The Bosch chart also lists both the AD and AE for 1970, but it lists the AD as using a different (07083) DVDA canister. The Old Volks Home site lists some special one-off 1971 autostick distributor as using this canister. The Bosch chart lists this canister as having the same vacuum advance and retard signals as the 07138 canister, but the OVH site says "unknown, maybe the same as AH" which has completely different vacuum signals.
I'm happy with what I am running now, but it bothers me that there is no substantial information regarding exactly what autostick distributors were for what years (at least the early years) and which canisters went with which distributors. AND whether they were SVDA or DVDA.  |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: H30/31 PICT with SVDA distributor |
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| Lingwendil wrote: |
| Weird. Both of the autostick "AE" distributors I've personally rebuilt, and all others I've come across had SVDA cans on them, and I know at least one of them was original to the engine for a fact, unless it was swapped out by the dealer I don't see why they wouldn't all have been SVDA types. |
I wish you had gotten the canister arm numbers off those!
But if true, then why do the matching 30 PICT 3 autsotick carbs have the extra retard port on the back! |
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vamram
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7304
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: H30/31 PICT with SVDA distributor |
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The 034, which is an SVDA, I thought was matched with a 34-3, so VW just capped the retard port... pure guess, yes, guess, on my part.
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: H30/31 PICT with SVDA distributor |
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If you are studying that oldvolkshome data sheet it lists the 113 905 205 AL as a 1971 autostick distributor which is an error. That distributor was for manual transmission Beetles same year but not USA issue. It's very similar to the "034" being an SVDA.
_________________
Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: H30/31 PICT with SVDA distributor |
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| vamram wrote: |
| The 034, which is an SVDA, I thought was matched with a 34-3, so VW just capped the retard port... pure guess, yes, guess, on my part. |
Well I have actually never seen a 34 PICT 3 without the retard port. Since the 34 PICT 3 originally came matched with DVDA distributors whether autostick or not, I can understand this.
But I have seen lots of 30 PICT 3's without the retard port, since they were matched to an SVA distributor on the 4 speeds. But all the ones that were modified for autostick use I have ever seen, have the retard port. Which would indicate a DVDA distributor for the autosticks for those early years. |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: H30/31 PICT with SVDA distributor |
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| tasb wrote: |
| If you are studying that oldvolkshome data sheet it lists the 113 905 205 AL as a 1971 autostick distributor which is an error. That distributor was for manual transmission Beetles same year but not USA issue. It's very similar to the "034" being an SVDA. |
I was just looking on their distributor list on the website-- weirdly, it lists the AL for a 1970 autostick but ALSO as a "can also use" for a 1974 federal manual transmission.
In fact I'm not even sure what they are saying about its use on the 1970 autostick--they state:
Distributor: VW 113-905-205AD or AE, Bosch 0231 167 029 > 113 905 205AL, 0231 146 101
What does that mean? |
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boom10ful
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2017
Posts: 158
Location: United States
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: H30/31 PICT with SVDA distributor |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| vamram wrote: |
| The 034, which is an SVDA, I thought was matched with a 34-3, so VW just capped the retard port... pure guess, yes, guess, on my part. |
Well I have actually never seen a 34 PICT 3 without the retard port. Since the 34 PICT 3 originally came matched with DVDA distributors whether autostick or not, I can understand this.
But I have seen lots of 30 PICT 3's without the retard port, since they were matched to an SVA distributor on the 4 speeds. But all the ones that were modified for autostick use I have ever seen, have the retard port. Which would indicate a DVDA distributor for the autosticks for those early years. |
I've got one 34 pict 3 without the retard port.  |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: H30/31 PICT with SVDA distributor |
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| boom10ful wrote: |
| sb001 wrote: |
| vamram wrote: |
| The 034, which is an SVDA, I thought was matched with a 34-3, so VW just capped the retard port... pure guess, yes, guess, on my part. |
Well I have actually never seen a 34 PICT 3 without the retard port. Since the 34 PICT 3 originally came matched with DVDA distributors whether autostick or not, I can understand this.
But I have seen lots of 30 PICT 3's without the retard port, since they were matched to an SVA distributor on the 4 speeds. But all the ones that were modified for autostick use I have ever seen, have the retard port. Which would indicate a DVDA distributor for the autosticks for those early years. |
I've got one 34 pict 3 without the retard port. |
Ah! OK then, my bad. |
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vamram
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7304
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:03 am Post subject: Re: H30/31 PICT with SVDA distributor |
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| boom10ful wrote: |
| sb001 wrote: |
| vamram wrote: |
| The 034, which is an SVDA, I thought was matched with a 34-3, so VW just capped the retard port... pure guess, yes, guess, on my part. |
Well I have actually never seen a 34 PICT 3 without the retard port. Since the 34 PICT 3 originally came matched with DVDA distributors whether autostick or not, I can understand this.
But I have seen lots of 30 PICT 3's without the retard port, since they were matched to an SVA distributor on the 4 speeds. But all the ones that were modified for autostick use I have ever seen, have the retard port. Which would indicate a DVDA distributor for the autosticks for those early years. |
I've got one 34 pict 3 without the retard port. |
Yeah, but is it a German Solex? There are plenty of Empi's that ship w/out the drilling. What I meant by "capped" above is that the drilling is still there but plugged w/a black rubber cap.
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Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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boom10ful
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2017
Posts: 158
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:08 am Post subject: Re: H30/31 PICT with SVDA distributor |
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| vamram wrote: |
| boom10ful wrote: |
| sb001 wrote: |
| vamram wrote: |
| The 034, which is an SVDA, I thought was matched with a 34-3, so VW just capped the retard port... pure guess, yes, guess, on my part. |
Well I have actually never seen a 34 PICT 3 without the retard port. Since the 34 PICT 3 originally came matched with DVDA distributors whether autostick or not, I can understand this.
But I have seen lots of 30 PICT 3's without the retard port, since they were matched to an SVA distributor on the 4 speeds. But all the ones that were modified for autostick use I have ever seen, have the retard port. Which would indicate a DVDA distributor for the autosticks for those early years. |
I've got one 34 pict 3 without the retard port. |
Yeah, but is it a German Solex? There are plenty of Empi's that ship w/out the drilling. What I meant by "capped" above is that the drilling is still there but plugged w/a black rubber cap. |
It's a German Solex carb. |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:38 am Post subject: Re: H30/31 PICT with SVDA distributor |
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| boom10ful wrote: |
It's a German Solex carb. |
Pictures please! (Could it have been a non-US model that did not have to adhere to the US emission control specs?)
As for autostick distributors using SVDA vs DVDA canisters, I received a PM from a fellow autostick user who has an original documented 1970 autostick engine with AD distributor and a DVDA canister, which would line up with what my AE uses. I've asked him to check the canister arm number to see whether it's the same as mine or a different can as tuneup chart suggests. |
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:05 am Post subject: Re: H30/31 PICT with SVDA distributor |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| boom10ful wrote: |
It's a German Solex carb. |
Pictures please! (Could it have been a non-US model that did not have to adhere to the US emission control specs?)
As for autostick distributors using SVDA vs DVDA canisters, I received a PM from a fellow autostick user who has an original documented 1970 autostick engine with AD distributor and a DVDA canister, which would line up with what my AE uses. I've asked him to check the canister arm number to see whether it's the same as mine or a different can as tuneup chart suggests. |
Iv'e had a couple without the retard port that were German Solex carbs as well, and even one without advance or retard, that I'm assuming was from an industrial engine application, but unfortunately these were from my pre-smartphone era, and are long gone 
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