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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Brew City
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 Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ALB wrote: |
| Roy- What do your heads weigh compared to an 040 head? |
I just weighed a G01 casting without valves, springs, retainers and keepers and got 10.5lbs. I weighed our 040, also without valves, springs, retainers and keepers and got 11.5lbs.
Hey Livin, do I need to take a picture of the scale for proof?
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fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| LivinInnaVWBus wrote: |
Testing you say?
I've been waiting literally years to see test results on these heads proving the cooling claims. If you've already done the work, why not post it? With that information, I'd strongly consider them for my next build... Actually, I'd LOVE to use them on my next build but claims without proof aren't sufficient for me. I have a feeling others feel the same as well, you'd probably sell much more with test results. |
What is it, be a dick to Roy day on thesamba? Yes, I was there for the testing. I watched it happen. I was just discussing it with the person who did the testing at the end of May. We had a plan. Then on June 2nd he f-ing died in a plane crash. He had become a friend and we had planned on doing business together until we retired. See my post "A moment of silence" I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if an airplane company tested our heads and now buys them exclusively, I'm pretty sure they will work out for a street driven VW. |
Actually I thought it was be a dick to Chris day.
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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it seems that some still dont get that more fin aera cools better. I guess they should just cut all the finnage off thier heads to see just how long they last. but nomater how many fins or flash you have you can always find somebody that can over heat&fuck them up....and some dont have to over heat them. I have well over 100000 miles on my mofoco heads and they still run hot, they run cold too  how how I dont have a clue,but they have been driven from about 12 degreesF to over 105F outside temps(road temps way higher and no tinnage on my car to suck air from top, so it sees road temp air a lot) and in the end....it just keeps on going and going and going chasing that dam bunny on nitro.  |
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LivinInnaVWBus
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2013
Posts: 968
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| LivinInnaVWBus wrote: |
Testing you say?
I've been waiting literally years to see test results on these heads proving the cooling claims. If you've already done the work, why not post it? With that information, I'd strongly consider them for my next build... Actually, I'd LOVE to use them on my next build but claims without proof aren't sufficient for me. I have a feeling others feel the same as well, you'd probably sell much more with test results. |
What is it, be a dick to Roy day on thesamba? Yes, I was there for the testing. I watched it happen. I was just discussing it with the person who did the testing at the end of May. We had a plan. Then on June 2nd he f-ing died in a plane crash. He had become a friend and we had planned on doing business together until we retired. See my post "A moment of silence" I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if an airplane company tested our heads and now buys them exclusively, I'm pretty sure they will work out for a street driven VW. |
Not being a dick, just offering you a valuable recommendation which could lead to more sales, it would almost certainly lead to at least one, myself.
Excuse my hesitance but I'm sure you know Bergmann. He's been selling his shit shrouds for 2 decades claiming the same, better cooling, though we all now know better. His retort "After 16 years in production, over ten thousand kits installed by individual customers, I have NEVER heard such comments from a single customer. Some customers had this kit on their engine for 16 years."
Putting it in this comparative context, I'm sure you can understand.
Anyone can make claims and not that I am saying you would(I certainly am not), but it's obvious the person who stands to make a profit is the most likely to deceive. There is an exorbitant amount of junk parts with big claims, especially in the ACVW world in particular. Me as are consumer, require your assistance as the manufacturer to decipher one way or another as to where your company and product sits so you can make me a customer. Test results are an excellent start and it seems logical to me that a manufacturer would want to post proof to sell more items, unless of course these claims are unfounded. Again, not trying to talk or start sh*t, I'm just explaining to you my thought process as a consumer and the only reason you don't have a sale from me.
You and I don't have the best past, but I still REALLY want to buy your heads if your claims are founded. Telling me who your customers are and whose previously believed unfounded claims means little to me as I typically don't trust other's judgements, I trust proof. People who fly air planes are only hobbyists, there's no guarantee they aren't jackasses. Even on that note, according to a Plane and Pilot article, you're 8 times more likely to die in a car accident on the way to an airport than you are to have any mid-flight mishap, chances of dying in a plane crash are even less. |
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LivinInnaVWBus
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2013
Posts: 968
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| mark tucker wrote: |
| it seems that some still dont get that more fin aera cools better. |
It seems logical, right? But this is why research and development teams exist, to prove and DISPROVE theories which seem logical. |
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LivinInnaVWBus
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2013
Posts: 968
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
Hey Livin, do I need to take a picture of the scale for proof? |
Come on, really? You're poking fun at a prior and potential future customer simply because he's asking a manufacturer to back up claims they've been making for years? Claims that should be very easy to prove because you've stated you've done the testing, but for some reason holding out with sharing them to the public?
I'm REALLY trying to get answers. I'm building another an engine literally right now that I would love to use your heads on, I'm helping a fellow Samba member build his next month as well. Since I last asked you about these test results, I've put together over half a dozen engines which I've purchased heads from your competition. I'll have a 2074 going together this winter as well, childish comments won't make you friends or money. If I bought all of the heads from you for these builds, you'd have at a minimum of $3600 extra in your pocket which went to Brother's VW instead. |
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spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3071
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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my god you have been waiting for years to by a set of 050 heads now .that's funny. I have used a lot of roys heads on motors over the years . I have had 3 sets of 050 heads.for my own motors . I do a mild port clean up and port match . there the best heads I have ever used for the money .they make power .and when I go to the drag strip and I get the time slip. that's all the proof I need .I have run CB heads CHINA HEADS AND NONE WORK AS WELL AS THE 050 HEADS .it seens you have to have proof that the 050 heads flow better than joe blows heads and until you get that proof you wont buy a set of roys 050 heads .please .don't waist roys time. go buy a set of joe blows heads that come with 4 pages of bull shit flow numbers and show your friends on paper how much better joe blows heads are than roys 050 heads . and if roy gave you the flow numbers for his 050 heads you would still find something to bitch about .turbo guys love roys 050 heads. they hold up better and they do run cooler like mark said some guys never get it .don't knock some thing till you try it lol lol spencerfvee
| LivinInnaVWBus wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| LivinInnaVWBus wrote: |
Testing you say?
I've been waiting literally years to see test results on these heads proving the cooling claims. If you've already done the work, why not post it? With that information, I'd strongly consider them for my next build... Actually, I'd LOVE to use them on my next build but claims without proof aren't sufficient for me. I have a feeling others feel the same as well, you'd probably sell much more with test results. |
What is it, be a dick to Roy day on thesamba? Yes, I was there for the testing. I watched it happen. I was just discussing it with the person who did the testing at the end of May. We had a plan. Then on June 2nd he f-ing died in a plane crash. He had become a friend and we had planned on doing business together until we retired. See my post "A moment of silence" I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if an airplane company tested our heads and now buys them exclusively, I'm pretty sure they will work out for a street driven VW. |
Not being a dick, just offering you a valuable recommendation which could lead to more sales, it would almost certainly lead to at least one, myself.
Excuse my hesitance but I'm sure you know Bergmann. He's been selling his shit shrouds for 2 decades claiming the same, better cooling, though we all now know better. His retort "After 16 years in production, over ten thousand kits installed by individual customers, I have NEVER heard such comments from a single customer. Some customers had this kit on their engine for 16 years."
Putting it in this comparative context, I'm sure you can understand.
Anyone can make claims and not that I am saying you would(I certainly am not), but it's obvious the person who stands to make a profit is the most likely to deceive. There is an exorbitant amount of junk parts with big claims, especially in the ACVW world in particular. Me as are consumer, require your assistance as the manufacturer to decipher one way or another as to where your company and product sits so you can make me a customer. Test results are an excellent start and it seems logical to me that a manufacturer would want to post proof to sell more items, unless of course these claims are unfounded. Again, not trying to talk or start sh*t, I'm just explaining to you my thought process as a consumer and the only reason you don't have a sale from me.
You and I don't have the best past, but I still REALLY want to buy your heads if your claims are founded. Telling me who your customers are and whose previously believed unfounded claims means little to me as I typically don't trust other's judgements, I trust proof. People who fly air planes are only hobbyists, there's no guarantee they aren't jackasses. Even on that note, according to a Plane and Pilot article, you're 8 times more likely to die in a car accident on the way to an airport than you are to have any mid-flight mishap, chances of dying in a plane crash are even less. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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I have a set of pretty spendy heads from another samba super hero (not you roy) and I spent about 3 hours a head cleaning all the casting flash out. it's not just you roy. you can't make this shit idiot proof. and not for nothing, I have a set of NOS dual port heads that are in this funny blue and white box with a bunch of vwvwvwvwvwvwvwv all over them...the casting flash on those is amazing too...
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Brew City
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| LivinInnaVWBus wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
Hey Livin, do I need to take a picture of the scale for proof? |
Come on, really? You're poking fun at a prior and potential future customer simply because he's asking a manufacturer to back up claims they've been making for years? Claims that should be very easy to prove because you've stated you've done the testing, but for some reason holding out with sharing them to the public?
I'm REALLY trying to get answers. I'm building another an engine literally right now that I would love to use your heads on, I'm helping a fellow Samba member build his next month as well. Since I last asked you about these test results, I've put together over half a dozen engines which I've purchased heads from your competition. I'll have a 2074 going together this winter as well, childish comments won't make you friends or money. If I bought all of the heads from you for these builds, you'd have at a minimum of $3600 extra in your pocket which went to Brother's VW instead. |
Of course I am going to poke a little fun at you. You actually accused me of faking an email that we sent to you about a problem with an order. You also pose these "questions" to me in thread after thread after thread that are basically mocking me, my company and the products I offer.
So you spent $3600 with Brothers on their heads. Did they provide you with proof about how their heads are better than everyone else's? Even if you don't believe my claims about my heads being better, do you really think they are worse than everyone else's? Have you read a whole ton of people who bolted my heads on and their motors instantly overheated and blew up?
People on here forget a lot that I am also a consumer that buys products. I just bought a car a couple years ago and part of my decision was based on MGP claims. Do you think I walked into the dealership and asked them to prove to me on the spot that the MPG claims were 100% accurate? Did I demand that the CEO of Nissan show me the actual tests? Of course I didn't. I did my own research. What I found was that most people got close to the stated MPG, some people claimed they got way less and some people claimed they got more. Now, being a car guy I fully understand that MPG can be affected by hundreds of factors besides the quality of the car. After driving my car for 2 years, I am happy as happy can be. I can get 6 MPG better than the stated MPG claims through how I drive.
This relates directly to cylinder heads on aircooled VW's. All of us manufacturers can makes all the claims we want. We can do all the testing in the world. Anyone can make test results come out in their favor by changing just a couple little things. If I was going to lie about it, why would I have waited 14 years? Why wouldn't have I just told everyone I did the test without doing it back then? I also could have done the test myself but that's not very scientific. I waited until I had the opportunity of having a completely independant industry that wanted to buy my heads and wanted to test them on their own. They did the testing, allowed me to see the results and now I am their exclusive supplier. How a cylinder head performs, cools and lasts doesn't just depend on how the head is designed and manufactured. There are literally hundreds of other factors. If you really wanted to try our heads, you would just buy a pair and give it a shot. The worst thing that can happen is that they perform just as well as other heads with no extra benefit. Would it be a waste of money? No, you would have a great running engine. So, you can either buy them or don't. Of course I want you to but there is no absolute 100% undeniable test that can be done.
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| OMG roy has a nissan . I have seen the cooling of any vw heads.so he is not buying your because????????I call BULLSTITS.plain&simple roy bashing. |
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LivinInnaVWBus
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2013
Posts: 968
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:08 am Post subject: |
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Q: So you spent $3600 with Brothers on their heads. Did they provide you with proof about how their heads are better than everyone else's? Even if you don't believe my claims about my heads being better, do you really think they are worse than everyone else's? Have you read a whole ton of people who bolted my heads on and their motors instantly overheated and blew up?
A: Brothers make no claims that their heads cool better but they do a terrific job and are cheaper than yours. Though I have heard of a few issues with your heads, for the most part I do not believe they are any worse. But I'm not going to pay more for a head that is no worse or no better, I'd be intentionally wiping out my own profit margin for no gain.
Q: I just bought a car a couple years ago and part of my decision was based on MGP claims. Do you think I walked into the dealership and asked them to prove to me on the spot that the MPG claims were 100% accurate? Did I demand that the CEO of Nissan show me the actual tests? Of course I didn't.
A: I see where you're going but auto manufacturers are held to strict laws and regulations which require testing. I'm sure they are goosed to a certain extent because after all, it is the manufacturer which does the testing and provides results to the government agency, but they are subject to heavy fining as well where you are not. Hell, if the company I work for sells a single non-CARB approved intake to Cali, we're hit with a $25K fine per violation for such a minor infraction. If you were subject to similar repercussions, I would have a little more faith in a manufacturers claims.
I request the test results simply because it gives a baseline, maybe not an accurate baseline in all situations, but a baseline suitable enough for consumers to judge if your heads are worth the potential additional cost compared to other heads available for purchase. Just like John@aircooled does with the Setrab coolers he sells and as LowBugget did with the 356 pulley conversions they used to carry.
Being as I'd be out $300-$600 to test and prove or disprove your claims, I think it would be reasonable to request this from the manufacturer.
Testing could looks something as simple as a stock 1600dp on a test stand. Run and bring it to operating temperatures then take an infrared temperature reading of both heads. Let it cool down, remove one of the heads and replace it with yours then bring it back up to operating temp, take a reading and compare the difference. This could all be easily filmed and posted on youtube, can you imagine the traffic you will get with such FREE exposure?
I sh*t you not, if you did that or something similar and your claims are founded. I'll buy a set immediately, post my own glowing product review(once installed of course) then continue to support your USA made heads. Like I said, I WANT to buy your heads but if they are only just as good as the less expensive quality heads I've been buying, what's the point?
Mark, that is not true at all. In a world full of $89 performance chips and electronic "turbo chargers", I like to properly educate myself and reduce my risk of loosing money with little justification. Do you remember the Minnow Fish fuel economy carb, their unfounded claims and how many people bought them?
Spencer, I don't care how much the heads flow. I am not a drag racer, I'm a daily bus driver. Flow is of little importance to me, cooling on the other hand very much is. With external oil coolers keeping our temps at 180, the only thing from stopping us from going with the flow of traffic in a bus are the head temperatures. I believe this is a legitimate concern and inquiry, especially considering Roy's heads may literally have the ability to change how fast bus owners can drive, imagine how groundbreaking this would be. |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Brew City
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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I totally get what you are saying with the test but I thought about that a long time ago. The reason I didn't do it myself and film it(seriously, I was close to actually doing it) is that no matter what the results are, people are going to claim I cheated the test. Since I can't make a 10 hour film, how easy would it be for me to change the compression on the motor with my heads? Or richen up the fuel mixture? Or change the timing? People on the site(including you) have just hammered the crap out of me and I'm not going to spend a ton of time only to be called a liar. That is precisely why I had an independant industry do it in a closed test cell. As for revolutionizing the industry; we are already doing that. Why else would a major airplane company use my heads and only my heads? Why else would my heads be the ONLY aftermarket heads approved by SCORE? I guess everyone is in on the conspiracy.....
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LivinInnaVWBus
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2013
Posts: 968
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Time lapse 
Thank you for the replies Roy. |
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spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3071
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Roy don't waist your time on this guy any more. he only hears what he wants to hear . hes a jerk. hes a you cant tell him any thing kind of guy hes right your all ways wrong . . Roy hes just trying to get you fired up . . why the ficken hell is he wanting a set of 050 heads for a bus ./ when the 050 heads are for racing and hot street cars . he tells me he don't want a race car type motor or race type heads for his bus motor . hes more into street friendly bus motor. what the hells that all about. after him trash talking your heads . and wanting to know flow numbers on your 050 heads when hes only building a mild street motor to drive around in .right there .Roy that tells me he never wanted a set of 050 heads to start with . Roy he only wanted to fuck with you.. hay roy . maybe brothers put him up to it lol lol this is getting into a pissing contest and no one wins .as mark would say WHAT F%#* SH^% I#$ about lol lol I am out of here be for evertt locks this forum down spencerfvee
| [email protected] wrote: |
| I totally get what you are saying with the test but I thought about that a long time ago. The reason I didn't do it myself and film it(seriously, I was close to actually doing it) is that no matter what the results are, people are going to claim I cheated the test. Since I can't make a 10 hour film, how easy would it be for me to change the compression on the motor with my heads? Or richen up the fuel mixture? Or change the timing? People on the site(including you) have just hammered the crap out of me and I'm not going to spend a ton of time only to be called a liar. That is precisely why I had an independant industry do it in a closed test cell. As for revolutionizing the industry; we are already doing that. Why else would a major airplane company use my heads and only my heads? Why else would my heads be the ONLY aftermarket heads approved by SCORE? I guess everyone is in on the conspiracy..... |
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LivinInnaVWBus
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2013
Posts: 968
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I was speaking of the cooling abilities for all Mofoco's heads, not the 050s in particular or any mention at all of their flow at that. |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5969
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
This relates directly to cylinder heads on aircooled VW's. All of us manufacturers can makes all the claims we want. We can do all the testing in the world. Anyone can make test results come out in their favor by changing just a couple little things. If I was going to lie about it, why would I have waited 14 years? Why wouldn't have I just told everyone I did the test without doing it back then? I also could have done the test myself but that's not very scientific. I waited until I had the opportunity of having a completely independant industry that wanted to buy my heads and wanted to test them on their own. They did the testing, allowed me to see the results and now I am their exclusive supplier. How a cylinder head performs, cools and lasts doesn't just depend on how the head is designed and manufactured. There are literally hundreds of other factors. If you really wanted to try our heads, you would just buy a pair and give it a shot. The worst thing that can happen is that they perform just as well as other heads with no extra benefit. Would it be a waste of money? No, you would have a great running engine. So, you can either buy them or don't. Of course I want you to but there is no absolute 100% undeniable test that can be done. |
Roy, I get your argument, but there is a side of this that you don't seem to be acknowledging. A lot of people like to see numbers. Just making a claim, and expecting that people will take your word for it, doesn't cut it. Maybe on a $25 dollar part, but when spending 8-900 bucks, people want numbers to compare. CB does it: http://www.cbperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1423
Further, that you've had testing done, and still keep the numbers to yourself, well at that point it starts to seem shifty.
I'm not putting you or your product down, just pointing out that lots of products make claims with no data whatsoever to back it up.
A bit extreme, but heres one
http://www.magnet-tool.com/magnetic_fuel_saver.html
The argument that people would claim any test data given to be falsified, so why bother is weak in my opinion. Some people will always question results, just as the sheeple will accept it as truth without a second thought. The people that want to look at the numbers will think about the test results and what you compared your 050 heads to, and form an opinion.
If you can sell tons of heads based solely on the fact that Score cars and airplanes use them, great for you. But I think a lot of people would reconsider your brand if you gave hard data. Lots of us have bought junk at one time or another, because the guy at the shop said it worked. Hell I still buy whatever lure the guy claims is catching fish. But that's just a couple of bucks |
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Dan Ruddock
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3594
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Show me a pic with a light behind the head showing the air passages/flow threw and around the head for cooling, that is all I need to like or right off a head. Most current heads on the market now are very poor on this and it's more than just flash. It would take major drilling and grinding to get it bus street able
I have looked at the aa 043 style head and it is very good. Enough so that I bought them.
Dan
From Tims Samba ad;
We are now using the AA 043 style head casting that allows a larger chamber with no step. Heads have excellent cooling, 12mm spark plus holes, extra material at the rocker stand, stainless valves, 3 angle valve job, cm retainers, dual springs.
We can provide a chamber on the heads up to 60cc with no step |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3465
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:58 pm Post subject: Airflow where it counts |
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My Mofoco 050's, Airflow around the combustion chamber is most critical, as that's where the heat is. As you can see, nice and clear. The other areas that can be cleaned up only offer a tiny amount of airflow, and I'm not worried about it as these are cooler running areas. Notice on second picture core shift is hardly existent.
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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DerrickfromNC1
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2008
Posts: 1302
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:45 am Post subject: |
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Nice heads.....are those as cast or do they have the ported/polished option as listed on the MOFOCO website?
Thanks |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Brew City
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| esde wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
This relates directly to cylinder heads on aircooled VW's. All of us manufacturers can makes all the claims we want. We can do all the testing in the world. Anyone can make test results come out in their favor by changing just a couple little things. If I was going to lie about it, why would I have waited 14 years? Why wouldn't have I just told everyone I did the test without doing it back then? I also could have done the test myself but that's not very scientific. I waited until I had the opportunity of having a completely independant industry that wanted to buy my heads and wanted to test them on their own. They did the testing, allowed me to see the results and now I am their exclusive supplier. How a cylinder head performs, cools and lasts doesn't just depend on how the head is designed and manufactured. There are literally hundreds of other factors. If you really wanted to try our heads, you would just buy a pair and give it a shot. The worst thing that can happen is that they perform just as well as other heads with no extra benefit. Would it be a waste of money? No, you would have a great running engine. So, you can either buy them or don't. Of course I want you to but there is no absolute 100% undeniable test that can be done. |
Roy, I get your argument, but there is a side of this that you don't seem to be acknowledging. A lot of people like to see numbers. Just making a claim, and expecting that people will take your word for it, doesn't cut it. Maybe on a $25 dollar part, but when spending 8-900 bucks, people want numbers to compare. CB does it: http://www.cbperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1423
Further, that you've had testing done, and still keep the numbers to yourself, well at that point it starts to seem shifty.
I'm not putting you or your product down, just pointing out that lots of products make claims with no data whatsoever to back it up.
A bit extreme, but heres one
http://www.magnet-tool.com/magnetic_fuel_saver.html
The argument that people would claim any test data given to be falsified, so why bother is weak in my opinion. Some people will always question results, just as the sheeple will accept it as truth without a second thought. The people that want to look at the numbers will think about the test results and what you compared your 050 heads to, and form an opinion.
If you can sell tons of heads based solely on the fact that Score cars and airplanes use them, great for you. But I think a lot of people would reconsider your brand if you gave hard data. Lots of us have bought junk at one time or another, because the guy at the shop said it worked. Hell I still buy whatever lure the guy claims is catching fish. But that's just a couple of bucks |
I think you are missing what we are talking about. The whole argument here is the extra cooling ability of my heads. The flow numbers for my 042's were done by VW Trends in 2001 as a test vs all the major heads. They were published. I then flow tested the 050 myself and also posted the numbers.
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Cylinder Head Reference Sheet |
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