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zuhandenheit
Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2008
Posts: 846
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 Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Well, there are more little bubbles forming in the filler. Maybe it's good that I didn't paint over it, because I would have used up the last of my touch up paint, and would have to redo this anyway!
I don't really know what to do at this point. I guess if I buy another seal (it does have a new seal now, by the way, and had a new seal after it was last repaired) I can cut out the present one, and get help carefully R&R the glass again. The way the glass people did it (with nylon rope) didn't look too hard, and only took about 10 minutes.
Actually, well . . . hmm. I have the last seal, too, which I did not cut. It's only six months old. maybe I can just use that. |
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zuhandenheit
Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2008
Posts: 846
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| . . . or maybe I should just try to find someone who will weld in new metal from a donor van. |
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WestyBob
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 2346
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| zuhandenheit wrote: |
| Well, there are more little bubbles forming in the filler. |
Well ... you already have the windshield and seal in, so if I visualize correctly you're talking about the area below the windshild seal.
If it's hard to the touch all over then just do what J Dirge suggested a few posts back and sand out the bubbles. Then if it needs another thin coat of filler then do it. If not put primer over the filler and when that drys, put a couple of coats of paint over it. Then you should be good to go for awhile.
You could even do a water hose test after the paint has thoroughly dried. Let the water on the windshield and seal completely evaporate. Then with a very small screwdriver, carefully lift up the seal edge in the bottom left corner and see if any moisture is under there (may need a small flashlight too).
If not then you should be ok for now. If so, then get help removing the windshield, dry and refill any damaged areas (from the last windshield installation) [url]in the channel[/url], sand lightly and prime, then paint. Reinstall the windshield and you should be done.
If you used a new seal the last couple of times then you can reuse. A newer seal should be pliant enough to seal properly for many years.
The bottom line is you want the seal to stop all water from getting behind it, and you want to primer and paint all expose filler. |
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krimpoo
Banned
Joined: December 06, 2008
Posts: 355
Location: gabriola island
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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Take a tube of urethane (black)...cut a small hole in the nozel....stick it in between the glass and your vinly seal and squeeze it in there. Do the same thing between the metal and the vinyl.
Do NOT leave this step out.
Any auto glass shop will sell a tube to you. go around the entire length..dont go halfway. |
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zuhandenheit
Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2008
Posts: 846
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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You're all amazing; thanks for the help.
I'll watch for further bubbling, and after a few days I'll try to clean it up as much as I can. My last layer of filler looks terrible (i was re-applying at like, 6 am, after my carefully and finely sanded layer bubbled up) and needs to be sanded again anyway.
I really don't like working with 'mud' or puddy types of products.
I've been doing home renovation work for the last six months and have spent time working with stuff like drywall joint compound, concrete, thinset, and plaster, and I often seem to have trouble.
I don't like gooey stuff that I have to spread around. |
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zuhandenheit
Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2008
Posts: 846
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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krimpoo--it occurs to me that a sufficient amount of some such material, squeezed between the seal and the metal might take the place of the paint that should been been applied to the primer. If I could goop enough of that crap in there and press the seal the right way, i imagine that it would totally fill the channel. Applied properly, there really wouldn't be any way that moisture could get in there, let alone rust out the metal again.
hmm . . .
Am I thinking like a volkswagen owner yet?  |
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zuhandenheit
Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2008
Posts: 846
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| WestyBob wrote: |
| zuhandenheit wrote: |
| Well, there are more little bubbles forming in the filler. |
Well ... you already have the windshield and seal in, so if I visualize correctly you're talking about the area below the windshild seal.
If it's hard to the touch all over then just do what J Dirge suggested a few posts back and sand out the bubbles. Then if it needs another thin coat of filler then do it. If not put primer over the filler and when that drys, put a couple of coats of paint over it. Then you should be good to go for awhile.
You could even do a water hose test after the paint has thoroughly dried. Let the water on the windshield and seal completely evaporate. Then with a very small screwdriver, carefully lift up the seal edge in the bottom left corner and see if any moisture is under there (may need a small flashlight too).
If not then you should be ok for now. If so, then get help removing the windshield, dry and refill any damaged areas (from the last windshield installation) [url]in the channel[/url], sand lightly and prime, then paint. Reinstall the windshield and you should be done.
If you used a new seal the last couple of times then you can reuse. A newer seal should be pliant enough to seal properly for many years.
The bottom line is you want the seal to stop all water from getting behind it, and you want to primer and paint all expose filler. |
Thanks for the help and the encouragement. I especially appreciate that you were able to point out my stupid error (of not painting the primer) without especially drawing attention to the stupidity involved. 
The last seal doesn't look perfect. There are some cuts on the inner side from when the glass broke.
I've read more than one argument that OEM seals are really important. I doubt that either new seal is oem. So maybe I should order a new seal and then attempt the R&R. I'm a little terrified of breaking the glass (i was surprised by how easily the old glass broke!), but with help and a great deal of carefulness, maybe it'd be ok.
Or I could just slam a few tubes of silicone caulk in there and paint around the goop!
What if I load up a syringe with POR15 and squirt that crap in there?
Ok, yeah, and then I'll slap some aluminum tape on top of the joint between the seal and the metal, feather it in with filler and paint over it (with carefully applied black por15 on one side to match the original line of the seal)
That'll be way better than stock! 
Seriously though, what's the deal with this urethane stuff krimpoo mentioned? |
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ftp2leta
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| zuhandenheit wrote: |
| . . . or maybe I should just try to find someone who will weld in new metal from a donor van. |
OK men! forget the aesthetic side of the job, make sure the part under the window is straight and level. That is all you need right now!!!!! Prime the thing and forget about all that job.
come on you guys, a piece of glass, a rubber and some metal... there is nothing so complex here. It's like a leaking window in a house, ha ha ha ha...
Have those so call window guy put the windshield in and drive the damn thing! ha ha ha. Anyway, i will pull that windshield back out anyway. I said bring the beer, and that is not a joke.
Now relax my friend and e-mail me later, i will fix that damn thing with you later. All i need is a piece of sand paper.
Welcome to Florida! It's better be warmer down there!
Ben
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
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FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta |
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foodeater
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2007
Posts: 1318
Location: Newburgh, NY
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ftp2leta wrote: |
Anyway, i will pull that windshield back out anyway. I said bring the beer, and that is not a joke.
Now relax my friend and e-mail me later, i will fix that damn thing with you later. All i need is a piece of sand paper.
Ben |
That is an offer i would not ever pass up.
Go out and buy the man some good beer!
Lots of it!
_________________
89 Bluestar-2.5 Subaru Powered-RIP
'84 Westy Tiico-daily driver-sold
'82 Caddy diesel-sold
'87 Vanagon Syncro-RIP
'81 diesel rabbit-sold
'82 Vanagon auto-RIP |
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zuhandenheit
Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2008
Posts: 846
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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That is an offer i would not ever pass up.
Go out and buy the man some good beer! |
Hell, I'll special order cases from the moon, if that's what Ben would like!
When I think about how I'm going to handle my van's rust problem, I always think of Ben as the best example of who I'd want doing the work.
I really appreciate your offer, Ben!!
This windshield mess seriously stressed me out |
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zuhandenheit
Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2008
Posts: 846
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, well, now it's been awhile. The filler stopped bubbling after a few days or a week. My best guess is that it was moisture. Maybe I should be glad that I didn't topcoat it.
Ben and I never were able to meet (thanks anyway Ben! You're awesome for offering to help!), so I'll need some sort of solution for now.
My main concern is that I didn't topcoat the metal under the windshield seal--it's just primer.
As I said before, I'm thinking that a liberal application of either silicone or urethane under the seal might be a reasonably effective solution.
And then I can fix the bubbled filler and apply primer and rattle can paint.
Suggestions? Should I use silicone or urethane? |
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WestyBob
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 2346
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| zuhandenheit wrote: |
| Should I use silicone or urethane? |
Urethane for sure. As said by another, all the way around, as much as you can pack in there. Clean up excess, then lightly sand/prime/paint the needed exposed areas below the seal. Use painter's tape and newspaper to mask off areas you don't want painted.
The best way is to get a new seal, remove the windshield, re-sand/prime/paint, etc. but it really depends on how long you intend to own the vanagon.
The urethane way should hold for a good while - if you choose to do that then let it dry thoroughly and give it the hose/water test (or a typical natural Florida dowsing). Let the water evaporate, then press on the seal bottom with your fingers and see if any moisture comes out from under the seal. |
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ftp2leta
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| zuhandenheit wrote: |
Ok, well, now it's been awhile. The filler stopped bubbling after a few days or a week. My best guess is that it was moisture. Maybe I should be glad that I didn't topcoat it.
Ben and I never were able to meet (thanks anyway Ben! You're awesome for offering to help!), so I'll need some sort of solution for now.
My main concern is that I didn't topcoat the metal under the windshield seal--it's just primer.
As I said before, I'm thinking that a liberal application of either silicone or urethane under the seal might be a reasonably effective solution.
And then I can fix the bubbled filler and apply primer and rattle can paint.
Suggestions? Should I use silicone or urethane? |
This is so funny.... you should read the other thread i started 2 days ago.
I was ready to e-mail you this morning and meet today, i had 2 days in front of me... well, it turn out that the weather on the east cost was not looking good and something happen and i had to be in Montreal for Monday night at most.... anyway, we left this morning in a hurry. We are now close to VA, somewhere north of NC. Now i'm racing against a snow storm that should touch the whole est coast. Nice!!! This morning it was 75F and now i'm freezing. Now it's poring rain.
to get back to your problem, primer will hold pretty good in general. Almost like a paint. Silicone would do the job for a wile!
Anyway, i'm buzzed out from all that hard rainy driving, i can't think. Need a beer, or 2-3-4.
Later
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta |
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zuhandenheit
Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2008
Posts: 846
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Even the weather here in St Pete is getting cold!
Anyway, it seems like you had a plenty busy time without my windshield to worry about! It would have been nice to have met just for fun, but it seems better that you left when you did.
I hope you're out of the way of that storm by now!
.
Thanks for the reassurance about the primer.
I'll get some silicone or urethane or something and finish this soon. |
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zuhandenheit
Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2008
Posts: 846
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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westybob-- well, i figure I'm stuck with this beast for awhile. And I try to do everything as well as I can, given my resources and skill level.
I think, though, that I'll try to make this last as long as I can and just keep an eye on it. I suspect that I'll see signs of rust (colored areas under the seal) before it can get too out of control. And, if it appears to be getting bad again, I'll pull the windshield and redo it then.
What do you think? |
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WestyBob
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Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 2346
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| zuhandenheit wrote: |
| westybob-- well, i figure I'm stuck with this beast for awhile. And I try to do everything as well as I can, given my resources and skill level. |
Hey Zu --- love yer 'beast' and chalk up every personal do-it-yerself effort as a learning experience. You'll only get better and so will the rig.
| zuhandenheit wrote: |
| I think, though, that I'll try to make this last as long as I can .... And, if it appears to be getting bad again, I'll pull the windshield and redo it then. |
Sounds like a plan. And use urethane if you can find over silicon for the windshield sealing application. |
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16CVs 
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Joined: February 22, 2004
Posts: 4026
Location: Redwood City, California
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:13 pm Post subject: Sealing W/S |
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Seems to me that the bubbling is caused by the out gassing of the paint materials you used or the filler."Always follow curing instructions"
That said I would not use Urethane between the rubber and the body. I would use it between the seal and the glass only. You want to use a butyl based sealant between the rubber and body as the cab will flex . The best way to use a sealant in that application would be to put it on the edge of the gasket before installing the glass and then pull it in,therefore giving you a sandwich effect of the sealant.
Under no circumstances use "Silicone" sealant .It is non porous and holds water and moisture and will hasten the return of rust.
Again I suggest a factory seal as they fit the best every time and work and stand the test of time.
Stacy |
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WestyBob
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Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 2346
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing W/S |
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| stacy schneider wrote: |
| That said I would not use Urethane between the rubber and the body. I would use it between the seal and the glass only. You want to use a butyl based sealant between the rubber and body as the cab will flex . |
Stacy,
All the pro windshield/seal installers I've ever come across use urethane but perhaps you're right (and a revelation for me) so can you tell us what brand of butyl based sealants are out there and where to find ? Is it something readily available from our local flaps ?
Bob |
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16CVs
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004
Posts: 4026
Location: Redwood City, California
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject: Sealant |
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I like the "3m 8509" . How many glass guys have been in the trade for 25 plus years ?
Most of the guys in the trade now are used to doing glued in glass and have no idea how to properly seal a rubber set window.
Plus one snipet I left out before was that if you are going to be sealing the glass with a Urethane sealant after it is installed ,you need to prime the edge of the glass with a glass adhesion primer properly designed for the adhesive being used.
While everyone has their own tricks and techniques,mine have never failed me when done correctly.
Stacy |
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zuhandenheit
Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2008
Posts: 846
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the advice, stacy and bob.
Stacy-- So, would you suggest that I buy a tube like this: http://www.repaintsupply.com/pd_auto.cfm
And apply it between the seal and the metal?
I know that it would be better to remove the windshield again, but I *really* don't want to! |
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