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zuhandenheit Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2008 Posts: 846
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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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that's a good deal, firepilot.
krimpoo-- That makes sense. does urethane adhere better, then?
Stacy-- I know that this sealer should stay soft, but it does dry somewhat, right?
The tube says that it can be painted (not that I need to) 'after it dries.' |
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firepilot Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2009 Posts: 273 Location: Boise
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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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There is a guy in Boise with a mobile auto glass service that does a replacement for $125, installation included. When he showed up, he mentioned he had found also a Vanagon windshield with a couple very small scratches that he could put in for $100. I went for it, those scratches were not even noticable.
Looked for rust when old windshield was out, looked fine. _________________ 86 Westy Syncro |
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krimpoo Banned
Joined: December 06, 2008 Posts: 355 Location: gabriola island
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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Silicone would be the exact opposite of the right thing to use in this application. Once a microscopic amount of water gets under the silicone (and it will) it peels away from the metal like a..a ah...um... non sticky thing peeling away from an even non stickier thingy.
Save the silicone for your fish tanks. |
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zuhandenheit Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2008 Posts: 846
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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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I'm pretty much finished. I'll need to wipe everything with some mineral spirits one more time.
This stuff is messy!!
My feeling is that it's much better than silicone, at least. It's really sticky--very much like roofing tar.
To anyone else who uses it, I would recommend that you first prepare a number of gloves, lots of cloth rags and paper towels, and a can of mineral spirits. |
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zuhandenheit Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2008 Posts: 846
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Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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Well, as I said, I decided to use the product recommended by Stacy.
The box arrived today. My plan is to clean the seal with a damp rag (it's covered in dirt from the trees here), allow it dry, and then squirt a thick bead of this stuff all the way around, and clean up.
And then, at some point in the near future, I'll fix the exposed filler (where there was some bubbling--a few small spots--apply primer again, and then some rattle can touch up paint and clear coat.
Can anyone suggest anything before I do this?
I made several significant mistakes throughout this windshield project, and would like to be as careful as possible from here on. |
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krimpoo Banned
Joined: December 06, 2008 Posts: 355 Location: gabriola island
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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urethane between body and rubber and rubber and glass is standard auto glass shop technique. It will only leak if you do it wrong. |
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WestyBob Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004 Posts: 2346 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:50 am Post subject: |
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zuhandenheit wrote: |
Well, unless there something convinces me to do otherwise, i'll probably go with stacy's recommendation and order some of this stuff. |
Sounds like it's a go. When I get around to doing two of mine, I'll keep that stuff in mind. |
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zuhandenheit Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2008 Posts: 846
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:19 am Post subject: |
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Well, unless there something convinces me to do otherwise, i'll probably go with stacy's recommendation and order some of this stuff. |
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16CVs Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004 Posts: 4020 Location: Redwood City, California
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Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:36 pm Post subject: sealer |
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I do not know what the real difference between Resistant and proof. I do know that every time I have worked on a Windshield that was sealed between the rubber and the body with Urethane that ,it came back leaking.
Urethane will not bond to a smooth painted surface ,it will peel off of it like "Silly putty" . And add to the fact that the body flex will break the adhesion and leave an opening for water and dirt intrusion. When using a product such as 8509 3M it remains flexible and requires no special preparation prior to using it. And will re adhere once the water dries up where Urethane won't. And is much easier to clean up.
These are my opinions based on 20 years plus in the business and being one of the few around who can keep older cars from leaking,when others fail.
As I stated when this thread first started that I was going to have the unpopular opinion. I know that if that van had come through my doors and my recommendations were followed as to surface preparation ,curing of treatments and proper top coating and good original seal ,this thread would have died long ago.
Stacy
my .02 |
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zuhandenheit Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2008 Posts: 846
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Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, good point, Bob!
"Water proof" does sound better to me than "water resistant!" |
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WestyBob Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004 Posts: 2346 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Sealant |
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Stacy,
Your link displays a glazer compound that is non-hardening but it also mentions it's water resistent (as opposed to water proof) and recommended as a 'supplementary' sealer for auto glass installation.
Would you say this is still better than this other 3M urethane compound (link) ?
http://www.repaintsupply.com/pd_08609.cfm
Not trying to debunk your recommendation - just wondering in the context that Zu doesn't want to remove his windshield right now, just calk it all up under the seal, prevent leaks and hold-off re-rusting.
Bob |
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16CVs Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004 Posts: 4020 Location: Redwood City, California
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Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:38 pm Post subject: Sealant |
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Exactly the product I recommend.
Stacy |
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zuhandenheit Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2008 Posts: 846
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Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the advice, stacy and bob.
Stacy-- So, would you suggest that I buy a tube like this: http://www.repaintsupply.com/pd_auto.cfm
And apply it between the seal and the metal?
I know that it would be better to remove the windshield again, but I *really* don't want to! |
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16CVs Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004 Posts: 4020 Location: Redwood City, California
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Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject: Sealant |
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I like the "3m 8509" . How many glass guys have been in the trade for 25 plus years ?
Most of the guys in the trade now are used to doing glued in glass and have no idea how to properly seal a rubber set window.
Plus one snipet I left out before was that if you are going to be sealing the glass with a Urethane sealant after it is installed ,you need to prime the edge of the glass with a glass adhesion primer properly designed for the adhesive being used.
While everyone has their own tricks and techniques,mine have never failed me when done correctly.
Stacy |
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WestyBob Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004 Posts: 2346 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Sealing W/S |
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stacy schneider wrote: |
That said I would not use Urethane between the rubber and the body. I would use it between the seal and the glass only. You want to use a butyl based sealant between the rubber and body as the cab will flex . |
Stacy,
All the pro windshield/seal installers I've ever come across use urethane but perhaps you're right (and a revelation for me) so can you tell us what brand of butyl based sealants are out there and where to find ? Is it something readily available from our local flaps ?
Bob |
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16CVs Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004 Posts: 4020 Location: Redwood City, California
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Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:13 pm Post subject: Sealing W/S |
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Seems to me that the bubbling is caused by the out gassing of the paint materials you used or the filler."Always follow curing instructions"
That said I would not use Urethane between the rubber and the body. I would use it between the seal and the glass only. You want to use a butyl based sealant between the rubber and body as the cab will flex . The best way to use a sealant in that application would be to put it on the edge of the gasket before installing the glass and then pull it in,therefore giving you a sandwich effect of the sealant.
Under no circumstances use "Silicone" sealant .It is non porous and holds water and moisture and will hasten the return of rust.
Again I suggest a factory seal as they fit the best every time and work and stand the test of time.
Stacy |
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WestyBob Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004 Posts: 2346 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:41 am Post subject: |
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zuhandenheit wrote: |
westybob-- well, i figure I'm stuck with this beast for awhile. And I try to do everything as well as I can, given my resources and skill level. |
Hey Zu --- love yer 'beast' and chalk up every personal do-it-yerself effort as a learning experience. You'll only get better and so will the rig.
zuhandenheit wrote: |
I think, though, that I'll try to make this last as long as I can .... And, if it appears to be getting bad again, I'll pull the windshield and redo it then. |
Sounds like a plan. And use urethane if you can find over silicon for the windshield sealing application. |
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zuhandenheit Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2008 Posts: 846
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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westybob-- well, i figure I'm stuck with this beast for awhile. And I try to do everything as well as I can, given my resources and skill level.
I think, though, that I'll try to make this last as long as I can and just keep an eye on it. I suspect that I'll see signs of rust (colored areas under the seal) before it can get too out of control. And, if it appears to be getting bad again, I'll pull the windshield and redo it then.
What do you think? |
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zuhandenheit Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2008 Posts: 846
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Even the weather here in St Pete is getting cold!
Anyway, it seems like you had a plenty busy time without my windshield to worry about! It would have been nice to have met just for fun, but it seems better that you left when you did.
I hope you're out of the way of that storm by now!
.
Thanks for the reassurance about the primer.
I'll get some silicone or urethane or something and finish this soon. |
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ftp2leta Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004 Posts: 3271 Location: Montreal
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Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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zuhandenheit wrote: |
Ok, well, now it's been awhile. The filler stopped bubbling after a few days or a week. My best guess is that it was moisture. Maybe I should be glad that I didn't topcoat it.
Ben and I never were able to meet (thanks anyway Ben! You're awesome for offering to help!), so I'll need some sort of solution for now.
My main concern is that I didn't topcoat the metal under the windshield seal--it's just primer.
As I said before, I'm thinking that a liberal application of either silicone or urethane under the seal might be a reasonably effective solution.
And then I can fix the bubbled filler and apply primer and rattle can paint.
Suggestions? Should I use silicone or urethane? |
This is so funny.... you should read the other thread i started 2 days ago.
I was ready to e-mail you this morning and meet today, i had 2 days in front of me... well, it turn out that the weather on the east cost was not looking good and something happen and i had to be in Montreal for Monday night at most.... anyway, we left this morning in a hurry. We are now close to VA, somewhere north of NC. Now i'm racing against a snow storm that should touch the whole est coast. Nice!!! This morning it was 75F and now i'm freezing. Now it's poring rain.
to get back to your problem, primer will hold pretty good in general. Almost like a paint. Silicone would do the job for a wile!
Anyway, i'm buzzed out from all that hard rainy driving, i can't think. Need a beer, or 2-3-4.
Later _________________ Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta |
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