Cylinder heads, to fix or replace?

[Vanagator]

Greetings,
I'm into the job of fixing the leaking heads and would love some thoughts on the condition of my little beauties.....

I'm looking for advice on wether to buy new/rebuilt heads and place those on my bottom end which probably has 200,000 miles on it.
Or to somehow repair these heads and use them. I have read that you may be able to use JB weld or send to machinist to have them milled.
The van is a very clean 1986 camper and I'm planning a cross country trip in a few months. Any advice is appreciated.
Regards,
KT

[Terry Kay]

You can use the old heads--if there isn't any cracks between the valve seats.

With the size of them crater's in the sealing surface , take them to a machine shop, have them welded up, and milled.

I don't think you'll get away with just having them shaved--the crater's look way too deep.
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T.K.

[Vanagator]

T.K.
Thanks for the info...Thats good news. I'll look into a machinist monday...
Regards,
K.T.

[austinado16]

With that kind of mileage on them, and amount of work/$$ to just weld and surface (at which point you still have original crack prone VW heads w/ 200k on them, you might consider starting fresh with AMC heads from www.autohausaz.com, and get your cylinder head gasket (double kit) there as well.

But check your machine shop prices.

The errodes surfaces are just going to hold back water at 190*F and 16lbs of pressure. So you could clean (bead blast) the area, butter with JB Weld and then block sand flat.

For that matter, the special black sealant that comes in the Victor/Rienz kits will seal those just fine as is.

You just have to ask yourself, 'do you feel lucky' considering what you plan to do with the van.

Be a shame to spend the 12-20hrs (depending on how fast you are) to do all this work, and all the $$, and in 6 months find them either leaking, or cracked up by the spark plug-to-head bolt areas.

You're performing an extremely tough job, and working in a field of land mines.
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4 little pistons hammering themselves silly
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1970 Austin America
1966 Mercedes 250SE Coupe (sunroof & 4 on the floor)
1981 Volkswagen Rabbit Diesel LX P/u
1986 Kawasaki Ninja 600R
1990 GMC 1/2ton 4x4 Suburban
1995 Audi A6 Quattro Avant

[tencentlife]

Yup, nothing like new heads, but on a 200k bottom end? You need to be committed to that engine for that to cost out. If you think you'll get into a full rebuild in the next few years, then the new heads will still be new, so you'll get your money's worth. Engine resale sometime soon? The new heads by themselves are worth about as much as the whole engine, but you'll take a bath on that deal.

There are cracks between seats on both of those, so they wouldn't get a dime of my money, because short-term they're not worth it, and long term new AMC's are by far the better deal.. If your plan is just to limp this engine along while you eyeball a conversion, then JB and sand and stick 'em on. If you just used sealant I doubt you'd get more than a year out of them.

What I'm saying is it all depends on your longer-term plans. There aren't any long-term solutions using those heads that are worth the dough.
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[Pascal]

With that kind of milage I would take them to a machine shope and ask them what they would recommend. You will likelly need some valve work and your valve guides should be cheched for wear. I think I can see cracks between the valves in your picture. If the crack between the valves is larger than .5mm then the heads are no good (as per the Bentley). I suspect alot of people are driving with cracks between the valves and they do not now it.

Many people have filled the head pits with JB Weld with success (includig me )
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'84 Westy - 2.2wbx, GT Torque-Biasing Differential
'91 EA Cabby

[kshbaja]

By the time you pay a machinist to do all the cleaning, welding, milling, and the requisite valve job, you are already about half the cost of new. Get a new set. This has the pleasant side effect of not second guessing how good of a job was done on the repair when an issue arises.
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1986 Westfalia

[Terry Kay]

A picture is truely worth a thousand words---

I looked at that picture, and looked at it again,and decided that that line on the R/H side might be--or could be, but I absolutely could say yea, or nay on the line that looks like a crack.

I don't think it is--

The machine shop will be able to make the last call on this one--
I'm not going to say either way.

But--yep , I agree that tossing any big Dracma's into just a top end job on an engine with 200k on it may be a waste of good money.

Think about this one for awhile.
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T.K.

[Wildthings]

If nothing else you might want to do a poor man's rebuilt. In this case rod bolts and rod bearings, plus new piston rings on top of whatever you decide on the heads. Not a lot of additional money and will keep your engine together until the cam just can't do its job anymore.

[Vanagator]

Thank the powers that be for all your inputs.....
I'm faced with the decision now. I will have to decide soon.
I'll let you know......
KT

[stevegibb]

We faced repeated head failures and finally got a '96 Jetta motor (inline 4 2.0) installed. Diesel clutch, some mods to distributor and cooling but it's such a relief to have a reliable vehicle. To each his own ~

[firepilot]

I am actually in a very similar position. Just bought a Westy Syncro with 201000 miles, and known cyl head cracks that had left it parked in a driveway for years. Eyeing a conversion kit, but the engine actually seem to run rather good once I got it running, for the first time in years.

I am probably going to try to find some heads in decent shape, that I can get mills and put on, and drive it along for a 6-12 months then get a conversion.
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86 Westy Syncro

[Vanagator]

I have a new twist, I have realized that I have corrosion pits also on the block mating surface as well as on the heads. I mean the surface where the u-shaped gasket goes over. It seems to me like its not worth trying to repair that area too. So I may have to seriously think about new or rebuilt motor.....
KT

[tencentlife]

That's easy to fix. Fill the pits with JB, take the biggest flat mill file you can find and file it all flat again. I do that repair routinely on engine cases. You always want to use sealant on that surface as well anyway, even though the book only calls for using it on the outer seal face. The sealant will make up for small imperfections on the end of the water jacket.
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Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is kryptonite to doctrine.

[Terry Kay]

Use GM engine assembly adhesive on both sides of the head seal.
It'll hold off any more coolant leakation till the engine scatter's outa the bottom side of the Van.
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T.K.

[firepilot]

If you use JB weld followed by sanding, and then sealant, do you still need to have the head milled at a machine shop?
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86 Westy Syncro

[kevtherev]

[Vanagator]

I think I'm arriving at the conclusion that...... if I'm going to be travelling from florida to wash. state this summer, then plan to drive from wash to mexico the following....trying to jb weld or adhesive my engine together sounds like a rig job that will be haunting me the entire trip.
With 225,000 miles on this engine I think it may be time to bite the wallet and buy a new engine or quality rebuilt engine.
I have looked into the following motors:
Go westy, Boston bob, and tencentlifes'.
there's also a local vw joint called Classic Camber near me in Tampa, Fl that puts together new motors as well.
Any thoughts on this conclusion and/or motors from these sources.
KT

[Pascal]

I would not be too concerned with a well done reseal job (assuming the heads check out OK). What I would be concerned with is the state of the rest of the motor with that kind of milage...but that is me...and I travel with my wife and two kids...breaking down on the road while on vacation would not be too pleasent of an experince for me. Plus the cost to fix something on the road is often quite expensive. If that motor has never been rebuilt then it owes you nothing...but you might owe it a good rebuild

If this was a daily driver, then I would be a little more apt to patch it up and keep driving, because the consequences of breaking down close to home are not that significant. But a broken motor several thousands of kilometers from home while on vacation is not worth the risk IMO. I rebuilt the top end of my 1.9 with 150K on it...and I'm in the process of completely rebuilding a 2.1 to replace the 1.9 eventually. I could justify the cost of the work I did on my 1.9 (new rings, head job, head studs, oil pump) because everything else looked good and it "only" had 150K.
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'84 Westy - 2.2wbx, GT Torque-Biasing Differential
'91 EA Cabby

[tencentlife]

I'm with you; I would do a top end job on a 1.9 with 150k, or even more. But a 2.1 with 200k? In the immortal words of Jon Stewart: Ehhhh, not so much.
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Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
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Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is kryptonite to doctrine.