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215/70/16 on a syncro with tire chains???
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ledogboy Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 215/70/16 on a syncro with tire chains??? Reply with quote

Hey all-
I am reviving this decade-old thread to see if there is any new feedback on running any type of chains with 215/70/16 tires? It seems like many more folks have moved to 16’s, so there might be some fresh wisdom. I have managed to be the guy who just bought a set of Open Road A/T’s in this size, and THEN read this thread about chains being problematic. Embarassed

As it happens, I had the tires put on rims (CLK’s), but have not installed the rims on the van yet. Schwab will allow returns, and I am half thinking I should consider dialing it back the size a tad to make sure I can use chains if ever needed. I really wanted the taller tire, as parts availability forced me to have a shorter 4th gear than I would have liked, so I was looking for some rubber regearing.

Any thoughts are much appreciated.
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dubbified
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had Nokians WR C Cargos, Snowtire... Studless, and they owned.

LSD, and was goin up hills at 48psi.. major hills too, like the ones they close.

No issues. I would spend the money on Nokian without a second thought, Never had a tire grab THAT good. Oh my.
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j_dirge
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon_slider wrote:
I have never been through a snow roadblock that required chains on a 4wd. How does that work?

Only once for me. It was National Park Rangers (not CHP) on the road up to Glacier Point and Badger Pass (Yosemite).

I was turned around because I do not have chains in my 4x4 Isuzu Trooper.
Yes.
He actually asked to see them.. and this was on a dry road. Shocked
Snow had not fallen yet. He did not want them installed. Only wanted see that I had a set with me. (Law in CA is that you carry chains during winter in the mountains or higher elevations)

Now the kicker was that we went back to our place and got my buddy's 2WD Audi sedan (chains in the trunk) and the ranger let us through with everyone else... this time not askig to see the chains !!??

I chose not to argue the flawed logic.

I will admit, though, that when the snow finally began to fall, it got nasty. And it got nasty fast.
I was one of the last vehicles let thru on 120 out of the valley. (CHP chain check, this time)
On the way back to 108 via 120, it dumped and it dumped DEEP.
We made it thru in 4x4 in the Trooper. There were a couple of pucker monents.

The Audi had to wait for the plows in the AM.

My experience (and that of many of my skiing friends over the years) R3 is never called on major roads.. CHP simply closes the road until snow stops and plows can scrape.

I am 2WD Westy, now .. so chains are a no-brainer. But even if I were a syncro, I'd carry chains as a recovery thing.. or in case of failure in the AWD system.
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Jon_slider
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never been through a snow roadblock that required chains on a 4wd. How does that work?

Do they make you just SHOW them you have chains with you, or do they make you Put Them ON?

I dont think chains will fit my setup. But the only snow roadblocks Ive been through required chains OR 4wd, never chains AND 4wd

> if you are correct i can just put them on the front and not worry about the rear hitting the trailing arm's

please share your results.

I would be afraid to put chains or cables on only 2 wheels of a syncro that has no decoupler, and I sure would not put them on the front 2 wheels, I would put them on the back, if I did..

hopefully others with experience will educate us

some rules I found:
http://www.caldrive.com/conditions.html

The main chain requirements are usually one or more of the following, in increasing order of severity; the "R" codes are used by Caltrans, as explained in their comprehensive Chain Controls web page:

* Snow chains must be carried. This is actually not a real requirement, only an advisory, but there are several signs around the state that make it look like it's required.

What this means is that there's no real problem on the road now, but that there's the possibility of a new snowfall or ice, so keep a suitable set of chains in your car ready for use. In any case you should always carry chains in the higher mountain areas except during the summer months.

* R1: Snow chains required; snow tires OK.

This basically requires all cars without snow tires (even 4WD cars without snow tires on all four wheels) to put snow chains on before proceeding any further; you'll often have to pass a checkpoint where the CHP or Caltrans check for this. This at least allows normal cars with good tires through without putting chains on. Even if you have snow tires, most vehicles must still carry chains under these conditions (this may also be checked at a checkpoint).

In California, a snow tire is pretty much any tire that the manufacturer has certified "M+S" (mud and snow) or similar on the sidewall, and / or that the CHP or Caltrans thinks will pass muster. A lot of modern tires with good all-weather tread patterns will do the trick here; if in doubt, put chains on anyway, or ask at the checkpoint ahead of time.

* R2: Snow chains required; 4WD with snow tires OK.

This is the most common requirement, basically restricting chain-free travel to 4WD vehicles with snow tires on all four wheels. Once again, you must still carry chains even with 4WD, and you may have to pass inspection at a checkpoint.

* R3: All vehicles snow chains required.

This is pretty obvious — there's a lot of snow and ice ahead, and no one's going to get through without putting chains on, 4WD or not. This doesn't happen very often — in my experience roads are usually temporarily closed rather than made R3 — but plan for it even if you've got an AWD or 4WD vehicle.
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Vango Conversions
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, what kind of engine are you running? 215/70R16 is a pretty tall tire and you'll feel the difference in reduced acceleration. I have a 2.5 Subaru so it's fine and still faster than a water boxer but when I hop in another subaru powered van with closer to stock tire size it certainly feels much quicker.

The 65 profile seems like a good compromise size and should allow chain use and not cause as much of an acceleration issue.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm running The tire size you listed 215/70R16 on Audi wheels (A4 or A6 I don't remember) I do not have enough clearance between the inner edge of the tire and the trailing arm to run chains or cables, it probably has 1/4" of clearance if that. I don't recall the offset of my wheels but I did need to run a 1/4" spacer on the front wheels to allow them to fit.

If your backspacing is enough that you have clearance on the trailing arm or you run a spacer, you may start getting too close to the fender so the chains may interfere there.

If I really needed to be able to run chains, I bet grinding the lip of the trailing arm and running a 1/4" spacer would probably allow me to run cables, but not real chains.

I'm currently running non studded snow tires that were given to me and they work pretty well in the snow, we just got quite a bit of snow in Seattle and they work great for stopping and turning, but it's very hard to get started on an incline with 1 wheel drive. My next set of tires will probably be Geolanders in 215/65R16, I bet that the slightly smaller diameter would allow fitting cables without any issues, maybe even real chains.
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outwesty
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer your question. I ran 215/70/16 snow tires on Mercedes 37mm offset(+10mm spacer) 16" wheels last winter. I was able to use cables on the rear but chains would rub on the control arm a little bit...
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kurt vonnagon
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks: Heading up the mountain to camp out. Our first real snow fall. A whooping 7" but at least we finally got some snow coming. The forest roads they don't plow. The main roads they salt the crap out of not a problem. I have the soccer mom syncro no cool dash buttons. But if you are correct i can just put them on the front and not worry about the rear hitting the trailing arm's : problem solved THANK YOU
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Oceanpro907
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you will have plenty of clearance but personally, now driving on ice and snow for the last 4 months straight, there is no need unless the law says you have to. Our roads here in Seward Alaska have been completely covered for 4 months. The one time is warmed up and rained, it was rain ON TOP of snow and ice and the Syncro still was great.
I think the weight distribution on these things make them perfect in the snow.
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r.e.wing_fc3s
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have chains the same design as the RUD grip series. made by laclede. i have a 2wd and therefore put more stress on the chains when im offroading in the snow up steep hills. Almost every time ive gone out the side links on that style of chain mentioned above has failed. i started carrying around extra links to field repair but last time the the tension chain(red) which holds everything together broke. there not really designed for off road use according to the RUD catalog. easy to mount though. for my application ill be getting something with welded side links like the pewag austro super v.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kurt vonnagon wrote:
On syncro tire size must match for the all wheel drive. Doe's that mean you must use chains on all four tire's.


Ideally on longer road trips, yes, or disengage (decoupler) the VC and drive in 2wd with rear chains and dif-lock (lower speeds) engaged where needed. On short runs it's not as critical, can go awd with chains on back (or front) only.

The main thing about front/rear tire match thing is allegedly not over-heating the VC material which is far more probable on sustained high speed drives when unmatched.

Chains/studs are primarily best for ice and dirt traction .... don't do a whole lot for snow, sand and gooey mud where your tire tread and material shedding matter more.
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kurt vonnagon
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On syncro tire size must match for the all wheel drive. Doe's that mean you must use chains on all four tire's. I have 215/75/15 on audi rims so i have only about 1/2 " clearance on rear trailing arm how are the cable compared to the chain. Thanks
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ummmmmm.....let's see........

d!!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

> A long afternoon and a painful towing bill

lessons learned may include carrying a recovery kit, or did you have one with you that failed to extract the vehicle?

and maybe carrying a bicycle when offroading alone would be good insurance in case the vehicle is disabled and you have to walk out..

Here are the chains Bill Burke recommends
http://www.bb4wa.com/articles/Chains.htm

here is a review of a recovery kit based on either the HiLift Jack or Magnum Hand winch:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=343910

and from
http://www.bb4wa.com/articles/Accessories.htm
"Say you are exploring a back country trail and you slide into a deep rut and get stuck. Yes, it's that easy! Do you:

a) throw your hands up, walk out and try to find a tow truck (for about $400);

b) grab any old blanket and bush and throw them under the tires hoping it'll work;

c) get your partner/wife/husband/kids to push on the bumper, spinning the tires, furiously slinging mud all over the place; or

d) have a plan and equipment to easily get unstuck and merrily on your way?"
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gator70
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not put chains on those 16's. I think you will have rear trailing arm clearance issues.
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markmc90
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that studded snow tires are great, however there are some situations where you just need chains. Not to mention when Johny law says you do, I dont want to argue with him about my locking diff, just the peace of mind that I have the chains and can use them.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:00 pm    Post subject: Snow can trip up a Syncro Reply with quote

Riding with a friend, offroad, about 20 miles outside Bishop, CA in Syncro with 215/75-15 BFGs, ...no chains.

Road was 98% dirt...except for this north facing ravine

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


A long afternoon and a painful towing bill.

Warren C
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ThorAlex
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, sometimes chains can be good to have rapid. Especially for poor students like me that cant afford 15" rims and good tires. I've got stuck twice since i got the syncro, both times in deep snow, no use for studs there. Would have gotten out in 15 minutes if i had chains, instead of 30-45. But i agree, you don't need chains for road use, only for emergency and offroad. And that applies to 2wd cars to, just drive according to conditions and you can get trough pretty rough weather and road conditions
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vwsyncroguy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And now for your question.....

I rarely drive in the snow...so I'm only speculating here...and do not have experience with your size tire w/ chains.....that being said.....

You didn't say what make tire you have...but BFGs are the most common....so lets start there...

The largest tire you can get on a Syncro without custom rear trailing arms is 29.5" tall. This size only leaves about 1/4" of clearance to the rear trailing arm. You cannot fit chains on this tall a tire.

BFG says a 215/70-16 is 28" tall...so you should have 3/4" (half the total height difference) additional room for chains with your tire.....however, that to the real trailing arm. The danger is in the front......I have used 215/75-15" tires which are about 27 3/4" tall and they rubbed the rear of the front wheel well if you hit a dip with the wheels turned....a friend of mine has this size BFG on his Syncro and has even crumpled his fender lip a bit.

So the chains....particularly cable chains...should go on...OK...but I think you're in real danger of some sheet metal damage to your rear front wheel well if a chain catches the lip. If you watch what you're doing and creep over any bumps or dips when turning....you might be OK.

Warren C.


Last edited by vwsyncroguy on Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sunshine_norway
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For winter and snow there`s only one thing! Studded tires...!
I`m in LOVE with my Cooper wheatermaster tires.
215/75-15

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Not many cars have overtaken me this winter. I just love the way they connect my syncro to the road....! Smile
In the curves I easily hold 50 mph, where others are down to 35-40 mph....
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