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DAIZEE
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well I hear you, as the flap didn't fall out before but it was fairly seized up with crud. Cleaned up, oiled up and falling out repeatedly. I just don't have them and I was very careful and how would I lose 4 of them. Brick wall As I've mentionned I've jury rigged it pretty good for the time being.
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83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look for those clips. I am pretty confident you had them on disassembly or the rod simply would not have remained in place. They're black plastic if that helps.

DougM
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DAIZEE
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep that's what's missing. All 4 slides. I put all parts from heater core in 1 zip lock bag and labelled it. Are they replaceable? I have jury-rigged a solution but would prefer to have the proper sliders. Is there a part number? Anyone carry them?

It's all ready to go back on the firewall. Tested motor first and works fine. Another problem I "may have" is that the knob that goes on the front of the dash has separated from it's base(to the left of the cables controls).

Having some problems identifying which Bentley pages to use. Can only find pictures for Diesel (which are somewhat of a help) and air Cooled. The pics do help BUT they don't quite match the water cooled. Bentley very helpful re cable replacement BUT 80.10 talks about a "Seal" to coat with D17.???? (between the bottom of the flap housing and the top of the housing cover). I'm very confused. Confused I used Ben's excellent pics to get it all back together and everything fits well.

I'm just worried and somewhat confused by Bentley. Covers Air Cooled and Diesel but no Water Cooled. My heater unit is from 83.5 water cooled. Can anyone help?

When I was removing the dash, tape was used between the heater outlets at the windshield to the ventilation outlets (both L & R). Guess I have to get those two Outlet Gaskets as well.
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83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)
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westyventures
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are four little sliding pieces that clip in there...then the floor director panel slides over and holds them securely in place.
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DAIZEE
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today, Friday, I've figured out and put the complete heater unit all back together (well except for the cables) with nothing left over! Taken me all day but I slowly figured it out. Can't really go astray as everything can only go one place!

BUT: the lower flaps for the driver's and passenger's feet keeps falling out as they face down. I know that I very carefully took it apart and made a zip lock for everything. All that is back together BUT lower flaps don't stay put! On Ben's pictures #36 & 37 there appears to be some kind of slide that goes in the groove under the flap rod? Is this so? I can't have had them. Most flaps were rustyish and stiff. Now with all cleaned and lubricated that bottom flap keeps falling down. With the dash plastic lower face on, it still allows the flap rod to fall down.

I know that once I re-attach the cables there will be some support on the right side, but I don't believe that is a satisfactory solution. I can jury rig a very small piece of rubber as a preventor IF I HAVE TO (shades of Red Green's Prayer For Men).

So what don't I have? yeh yeh I know no brains, no $$$ but what specifically for that area of the heating unit! I will hold off putting back into Scooby until Monday as next time I will be here. Thanks
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83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)
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DAIZEE
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HELP. Today I am putting the new foam on all the flaps which I cleaned. I have Ben's pics & instructions which were great help taking the dash off. I am not looking for more specific pictures of where/how the foam goes on, am trying to follow the Bentley but it's not much help.

Is there someplace that has detailed pics of taking apart/putting the heater unit all back together?? Pray . I know I can put it back together but of course I need to do it VW's way Confused Thanks in advance

Edi: I bought 3/16" X 1 1/4" closed cell adhesive backed weatherstripping in a roll. I couldn't find 1" wide so I trimed where needed. I figured they didn't have closed cell foam 30 years ago and because it doesn't absorb moisture, I thought it was a good idea to use closed cell. Karl suggested the 3/16" thickness and it sure seems to match the depth of the flaps. I'm going to have lots left over and I'm sure I'll find other applications for it. Smile
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84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)
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RicoS
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
I have purchased countless replacement parts in the aftermarket that clearly had the VW/Audi logo and part number ground off. To me that means they sometimes make the same parts for VW as for other outlets.

Mark


What it means to me is that VW will not accept second quality goods from a vendor so the vendor dumps the parts into the aftermarket tube where they are sold as first quality merchandise.

Richie
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davynavy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon radiator removal and replacement Reply with quote

Here are the pics, video of the situation:
https://plus.google.com/photos/105094302839367297393/albums/5711228596185592161

Thanks, was on the road with the day job all fall and didn't have the time to update until now. didn't run into any wolves but did see alot of cougars on my trips home:

1) Drove to the airport and back quite a few times (35 min ea way) and nothing catastrophic going on but I have to get this fixed for next summer fun.
2) Found my coolant tank level dropping over time, (original) had some kind of seam leak so replaced it.
3) Pressure test, saw water pump weep hole leak-new water pump bearing already shot? sux so going to replace this
4) Had personally installed New radiator and 90% new hoses installed last summer thanks to great info here and on Ben's list following AVP rebuild (2011). I have never driven when I saw the blinking red light demon come on: stopped the car and dealt with coolant level drop. AVP sent the 87C thermostat with the rebuild but it was running too damn hot so under good advice for Oregon coutry travels I installed 80C last summer on my 85 van. On the new radiator with the 80C thermostate see normal temperature fluctuation on hills.
5)Not screwing with the in dash right core right now but plan to later Smile since I agree the bubbles can't be coming from there.

Bottom Line: Seeing the expansion tank bubbles after long (2hr drives) and the expansion tank level rising, and gas accumulation at radiator bleed screw. I have suspected a small gasket issue all along but hey whats wrong with a little denial? thanks for your advice. Pressure test cold was ok, hot saw issue at Water pump. Will go from there but also plan to do the cylinder pressure test , complication is doing that test with 2hr run,hot engine
Not seeing any change in oil level or foaming in oil but I have suspected gasket issue since last fall when the car gets hot due to the gas accum. I guess the pressure can bleed by the gasket to the exaust side into the coolant but doesn't leak back into the engine cylinder or oil when it cools since it all tightens down cold? Oil level seems to be rock solid.

<<The fan has never worked since I bought this from an artist a few years back, and I have smelled some coolant over the years.>>

The starving artist obviously didn't need any heat--or any money to get the job done.
He just passed it off to the next unsuspecting buyer.
That's you.
If you smell coolant as your driving it could be coming from two of 27 different places.
I'll narrow it down --- the front or rear heater core.
You have to figure out which--
Put some pressure on the system and find out where.


<<The one disturbing thing is following the new rebuild I put in last summer I keep getting gas showing up in my system after longer drives (bleed some from front heater, <<but also see bubbles coming up into that extra plastic tank in the back for expansion, it has even gone to high level on a really long drive). I have bandaided by bleeding off but I have to either find the leak in the system (Front core suspected since everything else has been redone by me or my mechanic) or else my rebuild AVP is leaking by on the head gasket.>>

The "Extra Tank" is the fill or overflow tank.
If your seeing bubbles in a tank, it would be your expansion tank, and that would immediatly tell me you've got a leaking head gasket--not the head seal--the copper ring sealing the top of the cylinders to the head---

And here may be the demon--AVP.

You never mentioned what the engine temperature was as the coolant was foaming into the fill tank as you were hill climbing.

May not be the thermostat, might be the coolant can't recover as it passes through the radiator.
If the starving artist didn't attend to the front heater motor, I doubt he properly maintained the coolant system.
Might be a half choaked up radiator.



<<Do you know how to tell the difference between the two ( to isolate which)?>>

A cooling system pressure test will tell you right now.

PS---the front heater core will not create any bubbles in the expansion tank.

<<I have a good local mechanic>>

If he was that good, he would have put a pressure test to the cooling system a long time ago, to pin point the problem.

Time to call AVP for some warrantee work---
After your trusted mechanic determines that the cooling system is all up to snuff & working as it should be.[/quote][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][GVideo][img][/img][/GVideo]
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Last edited by davynavy on Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is exactly why I have the cores I offer custom made way beyond the spec's of the original VW issue.

No plastic tanks,and a bunch heavier duty.

It's a one time replacement--no repeat performances.

But--it's more expensive than the the Non-OEM stuff offered at the other places.

You only get what you pay for.
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was told this at VW school when I was an apprentice. VW/Audi/Porsche at the time would inspect a delivery of a partcular part to their system. If one part failed inspection, the entire order would be refused. These parts rather than being destroyed, would find their way into the aftermarket, but usually with the VW/Audi logo ground off.

This would not indicate the parts were no good, only the VW/Audi refused the lot and the resellers are required to grind off the logos. The same thing is probably still going on.

On topic, we were changing heater cores at the Audi dealer mid 80's on the 5000's all the time. New parts would show signs of weaping within 6 months. The coolant would leave a small stain on the tunnel carpet. We got pretty fast at swapping them out, but Audi never did provide an improved core. They would leak at the O ring seam between the plastic cap and the aluminum core.
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have purchased countless replacement parts in the aftermarket that clearly had the VW/Audi logo and part number ground off. To me that means they sometimes make the same parts for VW as for other outlets.

Mark



RicoS wrote:
.......

OEM means Original Equipment Manufacturer - as such, OEM parts may come from the same vendors who supply the parts to the vehicle manufacturer, BUT they are not the same parts as the ones supplied to the car company. Think about it. Why would a car manufacturer spend the time, effort and money to spec out a part which they find acceptable only to then allow a vendor to profit from their work?
................
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

westyventures wrote:
FWIW, The core shown on Bus Depot's page is directly from VW = OEM. Rolling Eyes


This acronym is often misapplied.

OE means Original Equipment which translates into parts from the manufacturer of the vehicle, i.e. dealer parts.

OEM means Original Equipment Manufacturer - as such, OEM parts may come from the same vendors who supply the parts to the vehicle manufacturer, BUT they are not the same parts as the ones supplied to the car company. Think about it. Why would a car manufacturer spend the time, effort and money to spec out a part which they find acceptable only to then allow a vendor to profit from their work?

For example, Bosal supplies headpipes to Volvo. Bosal also supplies headpipes to the aftermarket sellers. Both pipes come from Bosal, but I know for a fact that the ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT side of Bosal won't even talk to the aftermarket arm of Bosal and their respective production reflects it.

OEM seems to be a marketing phrase embraced by the aftermarket dealers which has very little import.

Richie
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The King of the Carpathian Mountains sez;

Cry about no heat in the dead of winter.
Wait till your teeth rattled your back molar filling's outa your mouth.
then cry about playing Sqt. Preston of the Yukon when you have to yank the dsah outa the van to fix the heater.

Cry more about the AC not keeping up with the searing heat in middle of the summer.
Wait till your Jockies are stuck to you crotch.

Do not ever, for any reason do a bi-yearly change to your anti freeze to prevent the cooling system from turning into jello.
Just add a conditioner to help hold the electroletical ion mass at a half assed level in the once green or blue fluid that's still in the the cooling system.

Do Not for any normal reason plan ahead--zero preventative maintainence is the name of this game in Vanagonland.

Then--after you skipped repairing the defunct heating system that you knew all about last fall, sqeal like a little piggy on it's way home because it's a bitch to get the dash out in the driveway at -20 below, then decide it's easier to play Mike Nelson and bore some discoveryholes in the header panel to try & locate the heater motor, and then blow some Spam into the blind hole & hope you get a C-hair of lubritorus minimus onto the end bearing & shaft--maybe--and call it de-buring, cleaning & oiling it up for maxiumum speed---as good as new.

Yea Baby--
Dream a little dream for me.

I think that a piano hinge stratigicly placed on the passenger front A Pillar--with a slice all the way around the sheet metal of the front end--secured with velcro--so the front end opens up similar to a Isetta, would be the real answer.
Now a lay back guy could work on anything buried in the dash area without any whining--
Swing open the front end & work away with no crying to the chorus.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:
. . . I'll also bet that half the folks bitching about the access to the heater motor knew damn well that it was cooked way before the winter hit--and did zero about it.



Oh, Great Pride of Szedged, you have such a cynical view of your Brothers of the Weeping Water Jacket, but, you're spot on about human nature.

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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:
Nothing is wrong with dropping the conditioner into that Cast Iron Cat cooling system.

Nothing is wrong with spinning on a water filter with the conditioner pill in it on a Cast Iron Mack engine.

I take a coolant litmus paper test at every service to check the DCA levels of the coolant.

You might do that to them Kitty Cats.


When I had the engine in my 91 out for rebuild because of the rod bolt stretching issue, i asked the machinist to replace the head bolts if he thought it was necessary. He returned the block with the original head bolts intact, saying it was one of the few WBXer that he had ever seen that didn't have a problem with corroded fasteners. Score another one for the use of coolant conditioner.
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DAIZEE
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I for one knew my motor stopped working months ago but I knew I was stripping the dash outside this winter (with a heater via hydro in our none winter.)
So reading all the threads on the subject I have decided this is a job I don't want to have to do again any time soon, so new motor, new core and new foam on flaps etc.... Thanks for everyone's input.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing is wrong with dropping the conditioner into that Cast Iron Cat cooling system.

Nothing is wrong with spinning on a water filter with the conditioner pill in it on a Cast Iron Mack engine.

I take a coolant litmus paper test at every service to check the DCA levels of the coolant.

You might do that to them Kitty Cats.

How many guys do you think do this sort of operation on a Vanagon?
I'll bet I can count them all on one hand.
None.

Their biggest saviour in the survival in their aluminum blocked squirrel cage is knowing that they should change their coolant bi-yearly, and I'll bet that half of the guys that do know, don't do it anyway.

Adding conditioner all by itself without servicing the coolant too when it's all worn out is like pissing in the wind.
The acids are still there eating up the head seals--radiator , heater cores--whatever.

And--I'll admit --yea I sure don't know if the factory installed original heater motor's are going to work on my Vans when I turn them on.
Your right.

But I will tell you this.
The dash would be out in a hurry.
No holes, no playing Helen Keller hoping the shaft lets lose after it's locked up.

This is a Disney Fairey tale.

But I have heat in a garage to get this all done--no snow boading as I yank out the heater box--
Nupe.

I'll also bet that half the folks bitching about the access to the heater motor knew damn well that it was cooked way before the winter hit--and did zero about it.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Terry, if you don't change out your heater motor every fall when you are prepping your van for winter, how do you know that it will make the winter? Of course you don't know and like everyone else you aren't just going to change out a heater motor if it isn't showing signs of failing. the Mullendore Port allows you to run with confidence that you have much less chance of having to change out a motor during inclement weather.

What is wrong with running cooling conditioner? When I buy a service kit from Caterpillar it comes with a bottle of conditioner. I will take Cats advice on servicing an engine over VW any and every day.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<<Don't remember anyone saying it didn't get cold in Chicago or elsewhere, most be the walls talking to you again.>>

Nupe, not me.
That was Faron Young--"Hello walls"


<<A dependable OEM motor would be a great thing, but they are not so dependable which is why we have this thread.>>

Now who in the hell said that?
Who's we anyway?
Gotta frog in your pocket?

<<A core will last as long as three new motors, maybe longer if you run a corrosion inhibitor.>>

Don't be changing that coolant--just add a rust inhibitor.
Huh--I'll have to ask We, Them or Somebody about that additive only.

<<Will anyone reading this thread who owns a Vanagon and hasn't lost a "dependable" heater motor please speak up.>>

I'm speaking up.
Spoken for.
Talking out loud--my heater motor's have never failed.

Next up---

I take that back.
My 86 325's heater / AC motor quit in September.
I had it fixed in september--3 days later.
I knew cold was on the way--I looked at the calander.

<<Spending hours in the cold to replace a faulty heater motor with a short lived replacements seems pretty haphazard as well>>

Here's what's haphazard---
if your depending upon the sky for roof only, I'd be doing some serious thinking about getting my stuff awfully straight prior to old Man Winter making my gonads ice balls.

I think this is called planning ahead.

I service my house furnaces, garage furnaces, motorcyle for winter, boat, as well as winterize the vehicles I'm not going to be driving in the winter.

If a guy was smart--( I said was ) he'd take a week or two dedicated to getting his stuff & his Vans shit together prior to winter hitting.
Tune up, Full PM, and make sure everything is ready.

Ahh, but then we wouldn't be having this conversation again--again-- & again.
There would nothing to converse about.

Don't winterize anything you own.
Don't check anything out you justmight be using when it gets cold.
Cast your fate to the wind, and be able to bond with the other mad men out there--who want to be chilled to the bone working on thier worn out toilets in the drive, lane, or path--
No thanks.
I'd at least be buying a good snowmobile suit if there is no planned parenthood here.

Perfect.

Too simple of a concept I know.

Let me ask this one--

What time of the year is best to be boring for oil in the front header panel?

December durring the Christmas holiday, New years day,maybe the first of Feburary?

It can't possibly be during the summer--the heater ain't on & frying the windings--
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:
JUts for grins--don't you think that here in the flats is gets cold ,& stays cold for 5 months outa the year?


Don't remember anyone saying it didn't get cold in Chicago or elsewhere, most be the walls talking to you again.

Quote:
I'd much rather depend on a new motor


A dependable OEM motor would be a great thing, but they are not so dependable which is why we have this thread.

Quote:
I'd much rather install a new core.


A core will last as long as three new motors, maybe longer if you run a corrosion inhibitor.

Quote:
I'd much rather serivice the heater box unit so it can be depended upon when I wat it to function.


Will anyone reading this thread who owns a Vanagon and hasn't lost a "dependable" heater motor please speak up.

Quote:
The hit or miss oil drilling is a haphazzard approach at best.


Spending hours in the cold to replace a faulty heater motor with a short lived replacements seems pretty haphazard as well
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