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beetleseb Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2006 Posts: 430 Location: Cheltenham UK
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:50 pm Post subject: 1500 83mm barrels and pistons on a 36hp? |
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Hi Guys
I've heard of a couple of folks who have run later stock 1500 vw barrels(cylinders) and pistons on a 36hp. Unfortunatly I've never spoken to someone whos actually done it themselves
Is it possable?
I know the cylinders will need alot of work, the holes for the studs will need fettling as will the length, but what else?
Also whats the best way of dealing with the 22mm wrist pins? Will Later 22mm rods fit the early crank? I intend to run a stock 64mm crank
Cheers
Seb |
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Julio Iniguez Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2004 Posts: 130
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Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Hey there,
We ran 40hp big bore cylinders on my 36stroker and so far so good. You have to turn them 90 degrees and do some trimming on the fins but they slide over the stud pattern.We also had them bored over so now they are 83.5. I don't now about your stock rods though, we used a porsche crank 74mm and porsche rods with a mystery piston(sorry)with the same pin height so we almost retained the stock width.
Julio |
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beetleseb Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2006 Posts: 430 Location: Cheltenham UK
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Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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I know 40hp pins are 20mm what are the crank journals?
I know there are 40hp 83mm pistons avalible, I'll look out for the barrels
Seb |
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gimmesomeshelter Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2004 Posts: 1466 Location: San Carlos, CA
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Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Julio-
I realize that this is OT, but when write things like 'so far so good', it almost sounds like you're expecting your engine to break.
Can you elaborate?
Thanks,
Paul _________________ "I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned."
Richard Feynman |
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grueni Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2008 Posts: 582 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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the same as julio told is possible with 83mm zylinders from the 1500ccm typ1 single port. |
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Julio Iniguez Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2004 Posts: 130
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Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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gimmesomeshelter wrote: |
Julio-
I realize that this is OT, but when write things like 'so far so good', it almost sounds like you're expecting your engine to break.
Can you elaborate?
Thanks,
Paul |
Yeah, I guess it doesn't sound to good
Since it's been ran hard at the track and driven on long drives,stop and go, lets change that to it runs great!no problems
It's a habit for me to say that because all what we did to the motor( 74x83.5, 8:5.1 1621cc) and the mix of new materials with old especially the piston(expansion) and ring set up with the old barells we wern't sure how they would hold up. There were a lot of educated guesses and design(Mark Herbert), not many on my part and talking to lots in the industry, some quality repro old speed parts Ray Shubert (Speedwell USA) and another think outside of the box guru(Al Higdon, Old Mill Toolwerks, OMT) to put it all together.
So at first I was kind of thinking it would let go and not suprise me because of some of modifications, but with the people involved and their knowledge "no problem" |
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beetleseb Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2006 Posts: 430 Location: Cheltenham UK
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Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:23 am Post subject: |
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I've been chatting with al, a really top bloke.
He's suggested a number of pistons including my current favourite which is the 83mm 40hp big bore.
I'd love to be able to run 1500 pistons as avalibility is superb and theres no fear of breaking it and struggling to find replacements.
It appears that the only real problem is the wrist pin size. I know some people have simply lost the bush and run it that way but I'd prefure to do it once!
I'm currently wondering about welding in more meat on a stock rod and then remachining to take a 22mm bush or bushing the piston down to 20mm. I know people have welded two rods together before but as I want to use the stock 36hp rod length with the stock 64mm crank this is a touch extreme.
I even thought about chevy rods with overseized crank bushes!
Seb |
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henry roberts Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2003 Posts: 1276 Location: australia
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Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:03 am Post subject: |
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i never found out the pin height and if it is offset but Mahle do a 83mm slipperskirt piston with a 20mm pin to suit an overbored Audi motor. be prepared for a little sticker shock though.
edit. i think they were mahle, i have done a little searching but cannot find them again. |
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grueni Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2008 Posts: 582 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:27 am Post subject: |
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changing the 36hp rods from 20mm pin bearing to 22mm work und up to 100HP I wouldn't think about problems.
but there are alot aftermarket pistons with 83,5mm or 83mm with 20mm pin diameter. |
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Julio Iniguez Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2004 Posts: 130
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Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:54 am Post subject: |
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grueni wrote: |
changing the 36hp rods from 20mm pin bearing to 22mm work und up to 100HP I wouldn't think about problems.
but there are alot aftermarket pistons with 83,5mm or 83mm with 20mm pin diameter. |
You are correct, thats how Mark H. found the ones for my motor. He literaly had a pile of piston manufacturer catalogs and just started going through them. We would also go to the suppliers and see them first hand till he decided which ones he liked.Hint, you can check out pistons for late '80's early '90's Japanese.
Julio |
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grueni Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2008 Posts: 582 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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right...mostly they have internet catalogs now and there you can see how the piston top is and they told you the ccm in the piston or the negative volume....and and.
but early 90 japanese at first is a good tip for everybody |
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beetleseb Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2006 Posts: 430 Location: Cheltenham UK
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Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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Does it need to be an aircooled piston? or will a normal car one do?
Seb |
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grueni Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2008 Posts: 582 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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there are not many pistons for cars wich are for aircooles engines at the 90s |
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henry roberts Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2003 Posts: 1276 Location: australia
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Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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possibly nissan CA18DET ?
getting close? |
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beetleseb Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2006 Posts: 430 Location: Cheltenham UK
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Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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I always thought you should use an aircooled piston hence wondering if it came from a bike rather than a car.
Seb |
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grueni Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2008 Posts: 582 Location: Germany
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Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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to the nissan pistons,.....how do you think they will fit?
pin diameter ok but compression hight about 25mm? if 3:1 compression will ok for you |
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henry roberts Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2003 Posts: 1276 Location: australia
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Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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perfect to fun 60lbs boost |
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beetleseb Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2006 Posts: 430 Location: Cheltenham UK
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Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:49 am Post subject: |
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Ok so I know why you wouldn't want to let me know the exact piston but can someone point to a good place to get piston data?
I've tried looking for piston manufacturers I'm rubbish with google
Seb |
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grueni Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2008 Posts: 582 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:03 am Post subject: |
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no no,..i don't know wich piston is your best choice because i don't know what you want to build exactly.and for sure you have to search by yourselve
i have a german adress for seaching if that is ok for you and mahle.com is kind of ok but not really a good choice.
i also have a set of pistons 83mm for 64mm stroke wich fit 20mm pin.but they was build for 40hp bugs 30 years ago by kolbenschmidt. |
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beetleseb Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2006 Posts: 430 Location: Cheltenham UK
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Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:59 am Post subject: |
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Ok
I have a 1950 25 hp case with a stock crank and rods
I'll fit bigger valves and do some small porting work to some 36 heads, and up the compression to about 7.5:1
Twin 28pci carbs, 383 dizzy, 6volt. unsure on cam, straight cut gears cos I love the sound
I don't want anything too mad, 50hp would be great, 60hp would be fantastic. Its running 1950 brakes . Something like my old stock but very well built (not by me) 1300sp would be good.
My Preferences are
Reliability
Rebuildability, if I break it I can buy it again!
Cost
Power
The 40hp big bore pistons are tempting but I can't get them in the UK. Are they abundent in the US? I know of several sources but will they all dry up in a few years?
Now back to these pistons.............
Cheers
Seb
Last edited by beetleseb on Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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