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shifter linkage issues *NOW totally resolved*
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:23 pm    Post subject: shifter linkage issues *NOW totally resolved* Reply with quote

I just put the transmission back into the vehicle.

upon doing so the shifting was a little off seeming, but worked, sorta.

well it got stuck in 3rd. I had to crawl under the van and tug on that little shaft that goes into the transmission to un-stick it, then could do ok but it would get stuck in3rd again.

fine. time to start the bently adjustment system.

lined up the holes on the plate inside the van on the base of the shifter. - check
loosed the front shift rod bolt where it connects to the rear shift rod - check
now its talking about adjusting the bits inside the box under the spare tire carrier, so I pulled that box off to get a look at whats inside.

this is where im stuck. the manual talks about adjusting this with some custom fabricated xxmm chunk of metal... im just lost at this point.
I have the transmission in neutral, the two holes in the shifter plate lined up, the front shift rod bracket is loosened and the metal box under the spare tire carrier removed. I think I have to put this box back on and find a way to measure how close from side to side that shift mechanism is, does that sound about right?

its cold, im tired and dirty so I have to stop till tomorrow morning. I didn't think this is where I would end up getting stuck in the trans removal and install process, but this is where im at. I did try some searching, but there are so may variations in the years and most everything was talking about replacing bushings...


Last edited by airkooledchris on Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a few random thoughts....

1. the Bracket (251-711-181) with the golf balls on it was hard to get onto the shaft of the transmission. the manual mentions this only goes on one way, but if worn could it be on somewhat cock-eyed and a cause for the sudden shift issues once the trans was reinstalled?
(not totally clear on how much shift adjustment is needed when you R+R the trans)

2. parts. wow, not easy to track down. assuming the worst and that ive disturbed my previous harmony of worn out bushings and generally broken and mistreated shifter parts doing their thing until 'touched' - I think I tracked down all the silly little boots and whatnot, although some of which had to be ordered from overseas.
The bracket (with the two golf balls) is one of the more pricey items to replace at $72 US... (haven't placed the order for that yet, im still holding out hope that isn't broken, rather just misinstalled)

PS - regarding the above original post, I think I understand the adjustment a BIT more. gotta put the black box back in place, tighten up the center to rear shift shift rod connection so its not tight tight, where I can adjust it a bit at the front. I have some 3/4 plywood in the garage (19mm basically) I can cut a little template from and use to center that front shift rod and hope for the best. if that adjustment doesn't work im going to look at #1 above and see about that bracket being reinstalled to be sure it isn't cockeyed.
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hege
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had to adjust the shifter on three vanagons, all have been late models -90 and newer, so I don't know how this applies to you.

The reverse lock has been wrong on all of them, two didn't have it at all. All of them had quite unsensitive gear sticks, but they weren't worn, so just cleaning and re greasing the was all they needed.

We had a Porsche that got stuck in 4th the same way you said. It had a bent shift fork. We had to remove it from forth a couple times by hand from the gear box, after which it worked fine for a couple careful shifts.
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a bit of progress. taking my time as I knackered my shoulder the other day...

did the readjustment of linkage according to bentley.
set the transmission in N, then made a 19mm spacer, then moved the stop finger of the front shift rod to the center of that rubber plate along the side of the metal enclosure - then used my 19mm spacer along the other side of the stop finger to hold it 19mm away from the side before moving back to the shift rod clamp and tightening that back up.

went to check the gears and could get into them all.
once again I get jammed in 1st or 3rd.

even without the front shift rod connected to the rear, if I manually move the rear shift rod from 1st to 2nd and back and forth, if you engage 1st (or 3rd) gear fully, it won't pull back out of gear at the normal angle that the rear shift rod would be at. - IF however I lower the other end of the rear shift rod (where it would usually be connected to the front shift rod) and push it deep into 1st or third, it would pull back out of those gears NO PROBLEM at that angle. Obviously the rear shift rod will never be AT that angle, but it wouldn't get stuck in 1st/3rd at all if it were at that angle.

im hoping that little nugget of info will spark someone to think of a possible cause...

perhaps it is the hardware at the trans side, so I pulled it off to clean it up and take a better look.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last edited by airkooledchris on Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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parishollow
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been working on my '84 with the same kinda issues. I am getting stuck in reverse and have to loosen the adjusting clamp underneath to get it out. I replaced the ball and socket,(only have one golf ball on mine) and that helped for my first gear problem but created the reverse one. The "socket" those balls sit in does wear, as do the balls. My van has about 265k on it. When I removed the "socket" and cleaned it I could easily see that is was worn compared to a new one. That might help, I don't know. I also notice the bushing in front of the clamp adjuster is worn and a little sloppy so I am going to replace that.
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i know these things change from year to year, but on mine the socket those golf balls sit in is part of the rear shift rod, so that would require the whole rear rod to be replaced to fix if thats my cause..
the thing that bugs me now is that it was shifting totally fine before I R+R the transmission...

in theory I should be able to make it work again without actually replacing anything...
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so I think I can tell what was causing this issue to begin with.

the little golf balls w/bracket thing doesn't slide onto the transmission perfectly up and down vertically. it seems to fit slightly cocked to the left or right, but wont fit straight up and down.

if I fit it cockeyed to the left (rear of trans) then it sticks/jams in 1st and 3rd.

if I fit it cockeyed to the right (front of trans) then it sticks/jams in 2nd and 4th + plus in this arrangement the rear shift rod can pull forward far enough to dislodge the golf ball and actually pull off of that guide pin completely

so with the transmission in Nuetral, these are the two optional positions that the golf ball mount fits like:

This is looking at it from the drivers side, where these golf balls are leaning towards the front of the vehicle and then causes it to get stuck in 2nd and 4th (and pull itself far enough forward to pull itself off of the guide pin
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Same directional view, this time in the other possible position where it then causes it to jam in 1st and 3rd:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


so now the question is why mine isn't lining up straight up and down in the dead center? is it an issue on the transmission side that didn't exist prior to the removal of the trans, or some other method to orient this properly?
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mightyart
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This is what keeps it "level" that bushing on the inside of the sleve (you did put the sleve back on didn't you?).
Your bushing looks like it's all worn on one side, it's toast, but they are also NLA, so you need to reuse it.
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that might be the case, but in the above shots I haven't even installed the pin yet when you can already see the golf ball bracket mounting only slightly off to the right or left.

I was able to work around it though by mounting it slightly towards the back and by extending the length of the front shift rod a bit so it can't pull itself off of the pin due to lack of enough movement forward ...

good news, I CAN now get into ALL gears and none of them get jammed/stuck

however, to get into first or second gears now I have to engage the reverse lockout first and hunt for them a bit.
I think this is related to that front shift rod 19mm spacing issue, but I haven't been clear on how that adjustment is actually made.

I made the spacer and while I adjust the connection where the front/rear shift rods come together - I do have that spacer in place so the front shift "stop finger" can't move over closer than 19mm to the passenger side of that black box/housing, but once im done adjusting and pull out my 19mm spacer, it moves over closer to the side.

what do you change to get the 'idle' position of this stop finger to remain 19mm away from that side of the housing? the manuals make it sound like you only need to loosen the front/rear shift rod coupler to adjust it, but does it rotate around inside of that sleeve, is that what makes it move to one side or the other?


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


above is where mine sits currently when in neutral. again I can get into all of the gears now, but first and second are in the reverse lockout area now....
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levi
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess you know your shift rod is missing the plastic tabs on the side of the arms?
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

levi wrote:
I guess you know your shift rod is missing the plastic tabs on the side of the arms?


am I really missing something? im unaware of that.
this is an aircooled 81 and they changed a lot, I think, over the years.

am I missing anything that you see in this image?

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levi
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the air-cooled vans don't have the plastic on the ends of the tabs?
The water-boxers have em, and they break off a lot, causing a great hassle in shifting.
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never taken mine apart, let alone a wasserboxer, so I can't say for sure.

Last edited by airkooledchris on Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like your guide ring bushing is possibly the culprit. I think I read that someone was able to use an O-ring in place of it and it worked ok. You can still get them over-seas. Also, I agree with you; it worked before you disassembled it so something was not put back the way it was before, but since everything is so worn that can be real easy to do since everything is worn in a particular way requiring it to be put back exactly the same way.

Good luck.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can get one here

http://www.oeveedub.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PR...on-shifter
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


thanks, I have some of those parts on order now.

I think the image above still shows the source of my current problem though.
that 19mm gap that is supposed to be between the 'stop finger' and the right/passenger side of that box is pretty much the whole space you can put between the two.

when I slide my home made spacer in place, its holding it tight up against the rubber plate on the left/drivers side of that enclosure.

I need to find a way to adjust this stop finger to rest tight right along the drivers side where the rubber plate is - without using my spacer to do it, so it stays in that position without the spacer in place.

does the front shift rod rotate by chance?

would I loosen the clamp holding the front to rear shift rod and try to turn it counterclockwise until the front stop finger hits that rubber slider along the side and quickly tighten it back down?
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

for some poor sap that will eventually run into this same thing and (hopefully) use the search on thesamba to find the answer, here's what needed to be done:

When it was getting jammed in either 1st and 3rd or 2nd and forth, I needed to adjust that little golf ball bracket so it was as straight up and down as possible. between leaning slightly towards the front or back of the van, I set it slightly towards the back of the van.
The next part of that fix is adjusting the length of the front shift rod by loosening the clamp where the middle and rear shift rods connect, which you can find by just folliwing the rear one towards the front of the van.

once I wasn't getting jammed into gears (after adjusting the bracket and length of the front shift rod) - my gears weren't in the correct places. to get into first and second I had to use the push-down reverse lockout area to reach them.

I loosened that clamp back up, rotated the front shifter rod clockwise, which creates that mythical 19mm gap and just made sure it was as tight as I could get it clockwise, tighten that back up.

that got it close, but still not right.

this part is probably due to worn parts or something, but the last thing that made it all work perfectly was adjusting the shifter base.
the manuals have you center up those holes as a first adjustment to make. I loosened those screws back up and slide the plate (top and bottom) over to the left as far as possible and then tightened it back up.
WOW - that made everything just fall into place PERFECTLY.

all the gears feel as smooth as butter, and I don't have to hunt for any of the gears now at ALL.

whats even better is that the reason I was dealing with all of this shifter BS was that I pulled the trans to try and fix a leak at (probably) the main/rear seal. so far - no more leaking. I haven't driven enough to really warm it up, so who knows for sure, but before it would leak just getting the oil nice and warm.

I couldn't have done any of it without thesamba. both for the advice as well as a place to dump my thoughts on the process as it took place. some of this stuff just makes more sense when you 'talk it out' even if your not getting specific advice in return (although many times that is what got me in the right direction.)
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parishollow
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am going out right now to see if that will work for my problem. Thanks for dumping your thoughts and finds here!
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parishollow
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am now able to slide easily into all gears. I will see if I get stuck in reverse now but that will take some driving around as it only happened a few times in the last week.
Thanks again!
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I understand right you moved piece number 4a towards the drivers side of the vehicle?

I have been having some tranny issues for a while and while they appear to be internal issues I want to try everything possible before I pull it and have it opened up.
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