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Types of grease/etc. do I need?
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Buzzfagan
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 9:14 am    Post subject: Types of grease/etc. do I need? Reply with quote

So I am sure this has already been covered numerous times but the more I read the more confused I get. Can I please get some straight forward simple and specific advice on the specific types of grease I need and where each type should be used to totally rebuild my 64 beetle/manx buggy. It is a king pin/link pin swing axle.

I am going to be removing and greasing the whole car. I am doing the whole front end including taking out the leaves and regreasing, replacing the rear spring plate bushings inner and outer and every piece of rubber I can find. Also I will be putting on all new boots, converting to disc brakes and repacking bearings, etc.

I am using red urethane bushings everywhere and I need to know how to grease and install them so they do not squeak down the road. And which type of grease will not break them down. I have even read a suggestion on using anti-seize on them? Do I do that and grease? What type of each? Do I even grease the red urethane "bumpers"and "supports"on the fron trailing arms, back cone shaped ones, transmission mount,etc?

So what specific type of grease and which specific type for each parts of the assembly and how to apply it the correct way would be very helpful. What all do I need to grease as I put together everything?

Also, after it is all installed what type of grease do I use in each of the different zerks? Different type for different parts of the car?

Thank you for your help!
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: Types of grease/etc. do I need? Reply with quote

Why are you using red urethane everywhere?
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Buzzfagan
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: Types of grease/etc. do I need? Reply with quote

That is what I was recommended to change out do by where I purchased all my parts.
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: Types of grease/etc. do I need? Reply with quote

I like the urethane bushings better than the rubber ones. The red ones are usually the firmest, and don't deform much at all. You may want to install the springplates, and front torsion arms without any torsion bars/leave springs to make sure everything moves through the range of suspension movement smoothly. Sometimes the outer diameter of the beam bushings need to be sanded down as to not to pinch the trailing arms. The springplate bushings may also need some work to allow smooth movement of the springplates. Energy Suspension has the special lube needed for Urethane Bushings in a little tub, 9-11104. You can get it from someone like Summit Racing/Jegs. The bushings usually come with the special lube, it's usually not enough.
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 11:33 am    Post subject: Re: Types of grease/etc. do I need? Reply with quote

I'm not a fan of urethane, but then I have a daily driver type 3, so I like the isolation the rubber gives.

One place I had to use urethane was for the its diagonal arm bushings... rubber is/was NLA. The shop gave me a special grease that kept them from squeaking. Like posted, seek this stuff that is made specially for urethane.

One place to NEVER use urethane is on the steering coupler. The rubber is reinforced with cord so if the rubber cracks it will still hang together. One crack with urethane and your steering control is gone.

Other than racers, many who try urethane have regrets. That's why I'm asking, since it would be a PITA to change them out later if you don't like the harshness and other body creaks and squeaks that come with a rougher ride.

Good luck!


Last edited by KTPhil on Sun May 22, 2016 1:30 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Q-Dog
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 12:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Types of grease/etc. do I need? Reply with quote

I use rubber on my buggy. If I were racing I might want to use urethane, but after seeing some crumbling urethane parts I decided I wanted nothing to do with that stuff, especially on cars I drive regularly.

As for the grease, CV joints get CV joint grease, wheel bearings get wheel bearing grease, suspension gets general purpose grease, rubber bushings get talc.

The Bently repair manual should have correct procedures and specifications for all of this stuff.
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Types of grease/etc. do I need? Reply with quote

I use EP/moly grease not just for CV joints, but for the wheel bearings, front axle, clutch cable and pedals and steering gear. Fewer number of cartridges/tubs to stock, and it works for them all. Bosch grease for the distributor. Engine oil under the rotor and for the lock mechanisms.
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Buzzfagan
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Types of grease/etc. do I need? Reply with quote

Why is it that the red urethane seems to have a lot of people who really dislike it? I don't care which one I use as I have not started to install any of them yet and can replace with traditional. I just want the best option out there that will give me the best ride and least trouble. I am not sure why my supplier recommended them over the regular ones.

Why would they still be selling the red urethane if it had all the problems associated with it?

What is the best high quality replacement for all these rubber parts and bushings?
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Types of grease/etc. do I need? Reply with quote

Urethane is stiffer. This is good if you race (less slop and better feel), not so much for the street (harsher and noisier).

Red urethane is also eye-catching, and often carries a premium price (more profit for the seller). However, original rubber is getting hard to find, repro is of variable quality. So check out specific part quality from sellers based on feedback here.

Anyone got recent specific advice on what rubber is of best fit and quality for each application these days?
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Types of grease/etc. do I need? Reply with quote

Buzzfagan wrote:
Why is it that the red urethane seems to have a lot of people who really dislike it?


It's harder than rubber ... good if racing, not so good on a street car. When it fails it disintegrates, literally crumbles apart.

Buzzfagan wrote:
I don't care which one I use as I have not started to install any of them yet and can replace with traditional. I just want the best option out there that will give me the best ride and least trouble.
If you aren't racing, stock rubber will be fine.

Buzzfagan wrote:
I am not sure why my supplier recommended them over the regular ones.

Why would they still be selling the red urethane if it had all the problems associated with it?
Profit. It is fine in racing applications where the cars are inspected and rebuilt regularly.

Buzzfagan wrote:
What is the best high quality replacement for all these rubber parts and bushings?
I get most of my rubber parts from West Coast Metric or Wolfsburg West, unless they don't have something that I need and can't wait for it. I have also found some good rubber parts from Bus Depot and Airhead parts.

Really good parts are getting harder to find, so I stick with the vendors that consistently have good quality parts when I need them.
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Types of grease/etc. do I need? Reply with quote

Where are you guys buying these garbage Urethane bushings that are crumbling away? I have a set of Energy Suspension control arm bushings in my 74 Super that went 23 years, and 70k miles before I had to replace a worn sway bar clamp bushing. The control arm bushings are still in use.

And where are you guys getting the vendors are out to gouge everyone by raking in the profit of selling Urethane bushings? Small Car Connection has listings for Genuine VW Rubber springplate bushings for around $8 each, and Aircooled.net has reproduction Rubber bushings for around $10 each. Energy Suspension has their Urethane sets in Black, or Red for around $22 for all four bushings. The shop I used to work at had a large off-road following, and they sold Red Urethane bushings 20:1 over anything else. Maybe Buzzfagan's local shop sells more Red bushings, and that's one reason they were recommended. The VW bushings are left over stock to those that carried them, and once they're gone, they're gone. John at Aircooled seeks out very high quality parts for his site. Maybe Buzzfagan's shop simply did not have access to the rubber bushings. How are shops making all this profit if the Urethane sets are less expensive than the Stock Rubber sets?

What actual bushings are going to be used? If you are replacing the beam roller bearings with the Urethane "tubes", how is Urethane "stiffer" than a steel roller of a bearing? As for the rear, the bushing is simply controlling the pivoting movement of the springplate. Any vehicle I've put Urethane torsion bushings in actually road smoother because the Urethane kept the springplate in more precise alignment, and allowed the torsion bar/shock to work as they were supposed to. I guess if you simply "throw on" a set of hard Red Urethane bushings from someone like Bugpack, then yeah, the beam tubes/torsion grommets are going to be deformed buy pounding them into the beam/torsion pinching the trailing arms/springplates causing them to bind, and the vehicle will ride like crap. What's to say the 50 years of corrosion in your torsion/cap aren't going to deform the Genuine VW bushings causing them to bind? Energy Suspensions Urethane Black bushings are almost as soft as Stock Rubber ones, and usually fit better than Bugpack's/Empi's.

Properly fitted, properly lubricated Urethane bushings aren't going to magically disintegrate, or cause a vehicle to ride like a dump truck. And this notion of vendors pushing Red Urethane bushings because they make the most profit off them is BS.
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