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12v to 6v
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oldvolkz
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: 12v to 6v Reply with quote

can i put a 6v flywheel, clutch generator combination from my 1200 on to my 1600 DP so i dont have to change my 63 into 12v?
Wondering if thats all that it needs?
thanks in advance
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68 T1
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You would need a better clutch for the 1600 engine. Why not just grind the 6 volt bellhousing to fit the 12 volt flyweel you would still retain your 6 volt system like that.



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oldvolkz
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

its ground already. then all I wouid have to do is change the generator and coil right?
I was going to upgrade her to 12v but decided to keep it 6v.

should I use the 12v starter(i have the bushing) or use the 6v
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68 T1
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You would have to change every 12 volt part on the 1600 to 6 volt. yes, you would keep the 6 volt starter just make sure you have the right gear and bushing.


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oldvolkz
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so how would this run?

I want to drive her daily. would this work?

what do you mean my correct gear?

thanks
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68 T1
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The correct gear for the starter the 12 volt flyweel has a diffrent starter ring gear than the 6 volt.





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oldvolkz
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks will be doing that.
i was going to sell my 1600dp turnkey so I caould purchase a 1200 turnkey
I guess i'll have to try it this way
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or you could get a 1965 (think it was KG only)6 volt geared, 200mm clutch disc area FW.
Been running this setup with 6 volt starters on 1600cc engines for years.
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oldvolkz
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what if I use a 12v starter. Would that work?
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only with a 12 volt geared FW.
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Wayne S. Johnson
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are your options:
Install a 12V starter for $149.99, 12 Volt flywheel $70, O-ring $2, Shims $10, Seal $3 and a 6/12 bushing $3 Total = $238 and ? hours to install.
http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw?frame=1.4993
http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw?frame=1.5000

To install a 12 Volt engine in a 6 Volt Manual Transmission the following flywheel is available. This special flywheel can be used when you want to install a later style engine into an early 6 volt car that has been converted to 12 Volts.
NEW FLYWHEEL WITHOUT O-RING / 180MM 6-VOLT WITH O-RING GROOVE (FOR 12 VOLT STYLE CRANKSHAFT) - BEETLE/GHIA/BUS
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D113%2D105%2D271%2DBOR

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Last edited by Wayne S. Johnson on Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayne S. Johnson wrote:
This special flywheel can be used when you want to install a later style engine into an early 6 volt car that has been converted to 12 Volts.
NEW FLYWHEEL WITHOUT O-RING / 180MM 6-VOLT WITH O-RING GROOVE (FOR 12 VOLT STYLE CRANKSHAFT) - BEETLE/GHIA/BUS
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D113%2D105%2D271%2DBOR

Anyone have another source for these? CIP's been out of stock since I started looking for one.
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Wayne S. Johnson
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:
Only with a 12 volt geared FW.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

If you have a 6 volt flywheel take a look at this post.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3552894&highlight=#3552894
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oldvolkz
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayne S. Johnson wrote:
Eric&Barb wrote:
Only with a 12 volt geared FW.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

If you have a 6 volt flywheel take a look at this post.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3552894&highlight=#3552894

and If I have a 12v Flywhhel and 12v Starter
Plus 6v car and 6v manual transmission?

what can I do. Just change 12v Coil and Altenator(from the 1600DP motor)
to 6v coil and generator. right?
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HerrrKafer
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No.

You can't use a 12V starter if you keep the car 6V. The starter will not start the car.

Go back to your first post. The answer to your question, more or less, is "yes". You would have a greater range of better options if you convert to 12V, but I won't press that issue. I'll assume you're dead set on 6V, and just answer the question.

Here are your 6V-system, 1600 engine options for flywheel, clutch and starter:

Choice 1:
1200 flywheel & clutch; use current 6V starter

Pros
• Cheap, you have all those parts
Cons
• non-oring flywheel on crank designed for o-ring flywheel. Some will vehemently argue that this cannot be done, but it can. I've seen it run leak free for years. Been discussed in the forums many times.
• Small clutch, not ideal for this engine

Choice 2:
6V, 200mm flywheel; 200mm clutch; use current 6V starter

Pros
• You now have the clutch designed for your engine
Cons
• I *think* all these flywheels also use the non o-ring mating design. But you can work around this, as discussed above
• You need to buy a flywheel and clutch
example: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=713397

Choice 3:
6V, 180mm flywheel designed for o-ring; 180mm clutch; use current 6V starter

Pros
• Flywheel/crank mate is as designed by VW.
Cons
• You're back to a 180mm clutch. Not a good choice in my opinion.
• You have to buy a new flywheel
example product: see flywheel posted by Wayne S. Johnson.

Choice 4:
... is absolutely absurd and not even worth discussing.


And also back to your original question, regarding "if that's all it needs" .... well, you need to switch the coil over, but you already know that as evidenced in the last post. The generator stand will have to be switched over. And you probably have to deal with the automatic choke element as well.

Very Happy
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Wayne S. Johnson
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldvolkz wrote:
Wayne S. Johnson wrote:
Eric&Barb wrote:
Only with a 12 volt geared FW.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

If you have a 6 volt flywheel take a look at this post.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3552894&highlight=#3552894

and If I have a 12v Flywhhel and 12v Starter
Plus 6v car and 6v manual transmission?

what can I do. Just change 12v Coil and Altenator(from the 1600DP motor)
to 6v coil and generator. right?


You would need a 6 V coil, 6 V regulator and 6 V generator.

This is the BOSCH HYBRID 12/6 STARTER. It’s a 6 V starter that mounts in 6 V or 12 V transmission. It uses a 6/12 V bushing* installed in a 6 V transmission or a stock 12 V bushing in a 12 V transmission. It’s used with a 12 V flywheel in a 6 V electrical system.

The BOSCH HYBRID 12/6 remanufactured starter has all the mechanical dimensions of a 12 V starter with internal components modified to operate on 6 V.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=644995

*BUSHING FOR USE WITH THE BOSCH HYBRID 12/6 STARTER IN 6V TRANS
https://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D5765
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:04 pm    Post subject: fly wheel Reply with quote

Thanks guys for the information....
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 12v to 6v Reply with quote

What about the 1961-1966 Beetle 6 volt generator will it fit the Dog House engine? Which backing plate and pulley are needed?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: 12v to 6v Reply with quote

I just converted my 66 into doghouse cooling. I used the 66 6 volt generator & pulley & backing plate, but installed the doghouse fan on the generator. Seems OK...
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: 12v to 6v Reply with quote

oldvolkz wrote:
can i put a 6v flywheel, clutch generator combination from my 1200 on to my 1600 DP so i dont have to change my 63 into 12v?
Wondering if thats all that it needs?
thanks in advance

Do you have a 6 volt engine in the Bug now? If so it can donate the coil, generator stand, generator with pulley and backing plate. You would need to use the larger DP doghouse fan. It may be able to donate a 6 volt choke element and idle jet with shutoff.

Wayne has a hybrid 12/6 volt starter that allows you to keep the flywheel and clutch you have on the engine. The transaxle bell housing will need to be clearanced for the larger 130 tooth ring gear on the late Bug 200mm clutch flywheel. You may need to change the clutch pressure plate if you have the late style on the DP engine now.

You can change the flywheel. My understanding is that you can use a 180mm flywheel from a 40 horse or 1300, but you will have to use the gasket in place of the O-ring. From what I've been told the parts interchange except that you cannot use a O-ring type flywheel with a gasket type (older) crank. You will have to set the crank endplay with the new flywheel. You would not have to clearance your bell housing and your starter would remain the stock 6 volt unit. I would recommend a Bus 180mm clutch pressure plate be used since the 1600 makes a bit more torque.

Another option would be a 109 tooth (6 volt size) ring gear 200mm flywheel. It would allow you to keep the stock 6 volt starter and your 200mm clutch. I don't know if any clearancing would be required to the bell housing, but I don't expect it would because the gear size is big fit issue. Again, end play must be set any time the flywheel is changed.

There is no reason you cannot keep the car 6 volt and drive it.
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