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truck bed coating in engine bay?
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Central Syncronizer
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:10 pm    Post subject: truck bed coating in engine bay? Reply with quote

Hi,

I've POR 15 d my engine bay (syncro doka) and it looks OK. I'd like to hide the flaws and am wondering about using Duplicolor truck bed coating.

Has anybody tried this with any success on a doka? I'm thinking the doka engine bay won't get as hot as a vanagon due to the increased space/air above the engine beneath the truck bed. The plan is only to coat the lower portion of the bay and leave the space above the sub floor up to the bottom of the bed uncoated.



thanks!

Jay
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First thing is --now that the POR 15 is way beyond it's 5 hour painting window , your going to have to sand the whole engine bay to get the bedliner to stick to the POR 15.
There's a fun job.

Then--the Duplicolor bedliner isn't as heavy and durable as some of the other products available in spray cans.

Take a good look at Mortons Bed liner.
it goes on pretty heavy and is more durable than the Duplicolor offering.
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Central Syncronizer
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:57 pm    Post subject: sanding Reply with quote

Yeah, I kind of figured I'd have to rough up the POR with some 80 grit sandpaper and so I'll have to live with that I guess.

Any thoughts on the heat tolerance of the Mortons?


cheers

Jay
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure how hot the bedliner can get--
But figure it this way--is the factory paint in the engine compartment high heat paint?

I don't think so.

That sheet metal can't get that hot or it all would have burned off already.

POR-15 has nothing stated as far as heat tolerence-and it's still there---right?

Urethane bed liner is tough stuff.
Tougher than lacquer or enamel--whatever VW originally painted them panels with --
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Central Syncronizer
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:11 pm    Post subject: Thanks Terry Reply with quote

Thanks Terry,

I'll have a look around for the Mortons. We are close enough to the border here that I can get some in the US.

The plan is to do the entire underbody eventually and so the durability will be a good thing.

cheers


Jay
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did the whole bottom of my 87 Westy 10 years ago with the Morton Bed liner--

It's still all there, and no rust at all under the Van.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought I am pretty sure the POR 15 primers will go on dry POR 15, there are two type
http://www.por15.com/SELF-ETCHING-PRIMER/productinfo/SEPG/
http://www.por15.com/TIE-COAT-PRIMER/productinfo/TC/

Terry is a dick though
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some pics of mine, used the stuff TK recommends, used a rapid strip an any rusty spots (very few fortunately), POR'd, let it cure for a few hours then hit it with 2 coats of Morton's truck bed liner(http://www.e-bodyshopsupplies.com/bedliners.aspx) Came out real nice beside a few spoty were it ran a little. Smacked it in a few spots....seems solid, also did the entire under body in the same fashion.

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Still need to POR behinde there (thats were the rust is coming from on that seam)
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:
I did the whole bottom of my 87 Westy 10 years ago with the Morton Bed liner--

It's still all there, and no rust at all under the Van.


With all due respect - how do you know? Is the bed liner tough enough that it would encapsulate rust that is growing? This is an honest question - not a smart alec remark.

Also, why would someone want to spray some bed liner in the engine bay? What are the advantages here? I definitely like the idea of the undercarraige, but am a little less clear in the engine room.

-Damon
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WBX,
It does kinda sound like a smart ass remark.....
Anyways, think of the reasons why you do the under carriage. You still get dinks and rust and all kinds of other crap up behinde the tail lights, spots rust in there just like anyother place on the van......and those seams rust dont they, pretty regularly I might add. To me I had the engine out and I took off all the old under coating and pOR'd it and applied new bed liner. I wouldnt take my engine out just do that, but why not add the extra protection if you can? Me I fn hate rust.... Evil or Very Mad
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knocked off all of the loose debris with a pressure washer, and let it dry for 2 dyas.

Blew the urethane Bed liner to encapsulate the seams, crevases, and whatever to lock them down from any future water impregnation, into those area's.

I urethane bagged the whole bottom of the Van.

If it was rusting under the bedliner or collecting moisture--there would be big bags & bubbles of bedliner under the Van--there isn't.

The POR 15 is an excellent pre- paint for bedliner, or in this case sealer.

You'll lock down all of the interior seams from collecting any more water, that will cause the seams to rust on the outside with this process.

To have a good job-- it's a lot of work, but the rewards will be 10 fold later on down the road.

Don't ask any questions --just do it--it works.

( this is the best answer I got---)
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Terry, but you are a blow hard prick,
Your information helped a lot..... Ill post some pics of the under carriage soon
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

double post
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tikibus
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To all,
I did buy into the hype of POR-15 and its magical powers. Plus, Chassis Saver and the cheaper price. Did hours of work in prep time and application.

THE RESULTS:
None of them did the job. Why? Got to go to clean/"Bright metal" for results. Half assed jobs,the paint bubbles.

What did do the job I was looking for was Weldmark 95.5% Zinc ( no silicone).
The product is Weldmark Bright Galv WM 305. It is a spray can, but from a 2 year test spot(s) [ tire clam, clamps on rad hose clamps, brake line connections for the front, etc..) It is like I did them yesterday.

I did not test the cohesion of paint onto the spray, but this is something to look into. Zinc is good for Vanagon.
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:
Good job--a lot of work, but the rewards will be 10 fold later on down the road.

Don't ask any questions --just do it--it works.

( this is the best answer I got---)


Well, not asking questions isn't how i roll, but i do appreciate you giving the best answer you've got.
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

POR works when you allow adequate dry time, rushing the process is what f's it up. At that is what I have learned, I painted some stuff last year(shocks) I rushed on the last one and it all came off with a power washer, the other three held up solid. That's just my experience the dude from their customer service mentioned prepping one day and painting the next to ensure dryness, seems to work, but I agree it should be stated more clearly in the directions that amount of time is needed. So I have only been using it on spots with actual rust where it has something to bind to. I feel if check your van every 6 months or so you'll catch stuff like bubbles and chips and then if something work you can take off, reapply or say f it and try a different product. My van is very very clean for being here in the midwest (came from oregon originally, home someday I hope). Believde me I was pissed when some stuff came off but I feel it was my error in not letting it dry adequately and some moisture must of still been the surface, so nowprep and paint are done on separate days. I believe the stuff works, just a long ass process to do it properly that some are too impatient for (I agree its a PIA).
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="tikibus"]To all,
<<I did buy into the hype of POR-15 and its magical powers.>>

It took me about 10 years and a bunch of flack from guys who used the stuff to try it.

<<Plus, Chassis Saver and the cheaper price.>>

It is cheap, and is nothing more than thick black enamel.
Your right, it's junk.

<<Did hours of work in prep time and application.>>

If you've got the right tools, and application equipment , it isn't no big deal.

<<None of them did the job. Why? Got to go to clean/"Bright metal" for results. Half assed jobs,the paint bubbles.>>

You don't have to go down to beyond surface iron oxide.
If you just knocked off all of the loose stuff, snad blasted,or 36 ground the surface so 99.9% of the rust is gone , the POr-15 seem to bind to the semi rough surface.
You don't have to go to bright metal.
The paint bubbled because you put too much on too quick, the surface skinned and trapped the uncured product under it.
That's why you get surface bubbles popping on the outer layer of the product.

<<I did not test the cohesion of paint onto the spray, but this is something to look into. Zinc is good for Vanagon.

Zinc is good for any bright, clean and perfect metal.

BUT--I know you, or nobody else isn't going to sand blast the whole bottom of your vehicle sqeaky clean, metal prep it with phosphoric acid, appy the Vari Prime ( Duponts Zinc sealer / primer,) skuff it all down when it's dry with 180 / 320 to give it biter's for the paint / bedliner to grab onto.

Thisn is the industry standard & the right way to do the job.

If you blew the zinc sealer on, then just painted over it--it ain't gonna stick, and you took a short cut too---

I'll tell this story again---

After getting beat up for years by the guys who were POR-15 lover's, I finally decided to give the garbage ( in my mind ) the ultimate back breaking test.

The shop has a Daewoo 250 rubber tired end loader, that was bought from a local airport .
It did nothing but load salt in to trucks in the winter.
It was parked in a salt pile, year round.

The cheap fender's over the wheels, battery boxes behind the rear tires, and the roof were rusted bad.

I sandblasted 90 percent of the rust off of the items mentioned, SPRAYED a caot of POR 15 on, under, and arond the stuff, let it set up--totally ( my mistake ) tried to skuff the stuff up the parts the next day ( the POR-15 is like tryng to sand down a diamond--the stuff laughed at anything but 80 grit paper on a DA )

I got it roughed up , and painted the fender's & battery boxes with Ryno Hyde black bedliner, and the roof with Ryno Hyde white bedliner.

Let's see---That was 7-8 years ago, the tractor sits outside day in and day out, get's beat up on the job all spring summer & fall,and all of the components that I refinihed are still intact--no rock marks, rust or corrosion.

Now I know your Vanagonisn't going to be pushing dirt, loading stone into semi dump trailer's, or livig in the wild.

It took this experiment to sell me on the POR 15 covered in bedliner to make me a believer.

I would have normally sand blasted, metal prepped, zinced, suface primed, and refinshed.

It would have rock marked and broke the surface of the paint in no time at all, and I would have been doing the job over in a couple of season's.

The POR-15 and the bedliner has bought me and the tractor a bunch of time, and saved me a bunch of labor.

I'm sold, and it works if it's done properly.
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:

I sandblasted 90 percent of the rust off of the items mentioned, SPRAYED a caot of POR 15 on, under, and arond the stuff, let it set up--totally ( my mistake ) tried to skuff the stuff up the parts the next day ( the POR-15 is like tryng to sand down a diamond--the stuff laughed at anything but 80 grit paper on a DA )

I got it roughed up , and painted the fender's & battery boxes with Ryno Hyde black bedliner, and the roof with Ryno Hyde white bedliner.

Let's see---That was 7-8 years ago, the tractor sits outside day in and day out, get's beat up on the job all spring summer & fall,and all of the components that I refinihed are still intact--no rock marks, rust or corrosion.


That's a great anecdote - one of the better endorsements of POR15 i've heard (if not the best). Any particular reason why you emphasized "SPRAYED" a coat vs. brushing/rolling it on?
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

likely a matter of convenience
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smurf, TK -

I've been lookin for a good bedliner/undercoat option for my syncro and I like what I've seen/read here.

I assume the rattle can version of the mortons is super thinned out compared to the spray kit and solvent requirements. Can either of you attest to the quality of the rattle can product?

Which did you use?
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